No, never ever heard of In-N-Out burgers except in the colloquial sense of going in the top and out the bottom. Which on second thought is probably not an advertising point.
D&D 5E I think the era of 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons had it right. (not talking about the rules).
No, never ever heard of In-N-Out burgers except in the colloquial sense of going in the top and out the bottom. Which on second thought is probably not an advertising point.
Savevsdeath
First Post
Because i cannot find 4e PLAYERS. the people i play with don't play 4e, run 4e, or do 4e. So i have no game. they won't touch anything but 5th and Pathfinder. So 5th and PF are my only options, and while they are tolerable, they don't have what I want in either case. WotC left me behind, and no-one has filled the void. And even worse, what I was left with is...garbage. DM's guild crap produced by amateurs that will never be allowed at any table I play at, unless it's my own game. I can't do anything but the same generic fantasy adventurers i've been doing since i was thirteen because WotC won't give us the content, and nobody trusts third-party content. WotC has been failing me since the day they jettisoned my favorite D&D and refused to even give me anything remotely comparable in the 'new' grognard edition. So I wait until I have a fantasy game i like and can actually get people to play again.
AaronOfBarbaria
Adventurer
And I'm not a fan of In-N-Out burger.
Which is why I think In-N-Out burger is a really good analogy for an approach to an RPG: their burgers are critically acclaimed, as well as having such fan devotion as to have people take a quick turn-around flight or an all-day road trip just to snag some In-N-Out for a special occasion, and their approach to the business just plain works - but that doesn't mean everyone likes their burgers, nor that they are even aiming for everyone to like their burgers.
It does mean they've identified their actual goal and enacted a plan that has achieved that goal to a satisfactory degree, regardless of whatever I might say I'd rather have where burgers are concerned.
AaronOfBarbaria
Adventurer
How is it WotC's fault you don't know anyone that wants to play 4th edition?
Savevsdeath
First Post
I never said that. But i do want to know whose fault it is that you completely lack reading comprehension, since you obviously ignored the bulk of my post, there, snippy.
AaronOfBarbaria
Adventurer
Are you certain? Your post definitely read as though you were attributing WotC as being responsible for you not being able to continue playing 4th edition, and very clearly said "Because I cannot find 4E PLAYERS." which is the actual explanation for you not being able to continue playing 4th edition.
Entertain for a moment that it is your writing being unclear that has caused my apparent misunderstanding. Because I don't want to go through your post line by line and explain to you how the words you use and the way you use them produces meaning.
I will, however, ask a second question of you: If it is WotC's fault for having "jettisoned" your favorite D&D that you can no longer play that version of D&D, how do you explain there being so many folks still playing AD&D (such as myself, matter of fact) more than a decade after WotC having "jettisoned" that version of D&D?
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Savevsdeath
First Post
To assist your poor reading comprehension, i highlighted the key parts:
I also went into detail in my earlier post about why i find 5th unsatisfactory. Lack of content, lack of the content i want, just...not enough. I will also add to that I just don't want to make stuff up mechanics-wise. I want a company of professsional game designers to do it for me in a way that i like. There is no reason why there is still no equivalent to the vast majority of the character types I liked in previous editions, and no option to build them that isn't a massive, ugly, clumsy kludge. I am willing to pay for this content, but apparently my money is not desired. And that's okay; sooner or later another company will decide that they do want my money. I just hate that WotC basically abandoned people who liked that style of play completely to chase the new grognard we-hate-options demographic and are letting them determine what options will be available to me simply by exclusion. I still want a module to 4e-ize the game a bit more and haven't gotten it. There is still no warlord-esque class that feels right (yes, the En5ider Noble is a GREAT attempt, but it isn't official and i can't use it in the games I am able to actually be a player in, plus it's still limited in ways i don't like). I still can't make a sticky melee non magic-using character without putting every single character resource toward it, and even then it isn't very good. Even many of the cool options from 3.5 that i loved are just not available (i'd give anything to have more and better weapons and equipment options). Combat is boring as can be, monsters are boring bags of hit points with no flair, and the save system is utterly broken and nonfunctional.
Also, did i mention i want a
ing warlord?Now, i do have a solution to go with my complaints: Release a second PHB, essentially. A PHB with races, classes, and character options for more high-powered, maybe even over-the-top fantasy stories. it could even be a PHB, DMG, and MM all in one with the rules for modifying the game to run at that level all-inclusive, since WotC hates to release crunch more than once per age. That would make me happy, which is why i am certain they'll never, ever do it.
EDIT: To be perfectly clear, I don't hate 5E. I Like it a lot, actually. I just want it to have the options i actually want outside the generic fantasy stuff. I want to be able to do the kinds of things, even in a way more fitting the system assumptions of 5th, that FEELS like the edition I love but now cannot play. Not necessarily with the exact same mechanics - the feel, which WotC has utterly failed to capture in any way, shape or form.
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AaronOfBarbaria
Adventurer
It was less than clear that all the WotC bashing was meant as a second, rather than supplementary, topic to your not knowing people that want to play 4th edition.
Might I suggest paragraph breaks to denote such significant changes of topic in the future?
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
While I am unsure if you were blaming WOTC for you not knowing anyone who wants to play 4th edition, it sure looked to me like you were blaming WOTC for you being unhappy. And I have no dog in this fight. I liked 4e, and I like 5e, and I have no issues at all with you liking and wanting to play 4e more. But I don't think AaronOfBarbaria was off base in suggesting you're blaming WOTC for a lot of your woes. I mean, you stressed WOTC left you behind, and then later repeated WOTC has been failing you, with most of your post devoted to those two concepts. Doesn't seem like AaronOfBarbaria was ignoring the bulk of your post.
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Creamsteak
Explorer
Admittedly, I will make it clear that I'm totally all for one official splat book at this point. Or a campaign setting book. I'm also open to the 3rd parties though. I expect someone to come out with something just awesome in 2017 just because I've been watching these publishers for years and I know some of them were just waiting to go hard on some real D&D content once they actually put the rules *for the ogl* out there.
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