D&D 5E I think we can safely say that 5E is a success, but will it lead to a new Golden Era?

[Campbell]

Honestly at this point my only issue is more of a community issue rather than a game issue. Much of the support I have seen of 5e seems tainted with dislike of 4e, and more importantly for me - it's fans and what they personally value. I cannot begin to entertain playing 5e as long as I'm personally seen as a problematic element. I feel like the community that has sprung up here doesn't want me or other players who don't value 90's era role playing as members.

 

[DaveMage]

Actually, the most fascinating thing to me about the excellent sales of the 5E PHB is that THEY GAVE THE GAME AWAY FOR FREE with the basic PDF.

There's a case study in there somewhere....

I mean, sure, the SRDs of 3.x and Pathfinder are free as well, but those do not include character generation.

 

[delericho]

Actually, the most fascinating thing to me about the excellent sales of the 5E PHB is that THEY GAVE THE GAME AWAY FOR FREE with the basic PDF.

There's a case study in there somewhere....

Yep. And, FWIW, I was completely wrong about the effect of that move. Oops!

I mean, sure, the SRDs of 3.x and Pathfinder are free as well, but those do not include character generation.

Nitpick: the Pathfinder SRD does indeed include character generation.

 

[Imaro]

Honestly at this point my only issue is more of a community issue rather than a game issue. Much of the support I have seen of 5e seems tainted with dislike of 4e, and more importantly for me - it's fans and what they personally value. I cannot begin to entertain playing 5e as long as I'm personally seen as a problematic element. I feel like the community that has sprung up here doesn't want me or other players who don't value 90's era role playing as members.

Emphasis mine... what exactly is "90's era roleplaying"... and before you answer that perhaps think that maybe, just maybe the dislike you sense is because of phrases like that which not only seem snide and dismissive of 5e but also imply (while carefully avoiding actually saying it) alot of negativity about 5e... just saying maybe you're getting back exactly what you're putting out there.


Edit: Of course if I'm misinterpreting what you were implying with that phrase, I'd be happy for you to explain it to me.

 

[Saplatt]

I think you are desperately trying to read into it more than what's there.

Not a surprising view from someone who thinks that anyone can make Amazon's top ten list.

 

[BryonD]

Emphasis mine... what exactly is "90's era roleplaying"... and before you answer that perhaps think that maybe, just maybe the dislike you sense is because of phrases like that which not only seem snide and dismissive of 5e but also imply (while carefully avoiding actually saying it) alot of negativity about 5e... just saying maybe you're getting back exactly what you're putting out there.


Edit: Of course if I'm misinterpreting what you were implying with that phrase, I'd be happy for you to explain it to me.

I agree that this is an issue.

It is funny how there is this theme that when someone who didn't like 4E in turn doesn't like aan element of 5E that resembles 4E, it is taken to be "because it is like 4E". That is backward. If someone doesn't like an element of game design, they don't like that thing. If they don't like a lot of the things that went into 4E, then it follows that they may very well not like 4E.

It is a very closed-minded attitude.

If I don't like anchovies and Joe's Pizza only sells anchovy pizzas, then I'm not going to like Joe's pizza. If I go to Mike's diner and decline the anchovy omelet, it is because I don't like anchovies. To suggest that the controlling reason I don't want Mike omelet is because I am biased against Joe's is just silly.

 

[Mistwell]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but I would say that most of Pathfinders sales come from FLGS and the Paizo site. This would be why you wouldn't see them in the top 10 on Amazon, not to mention the PDFs.

LOL

 

[Bluenose]

I feel like the community that has sprung up here doesn't want me or other players who don't value 90's era role playing as members.

I don't think there's anything particularly different or special about "90's era role playing". Unless there's some property of the period which I'm not recognising it wasn't really that different from any other time, and I've been playing since the 1970s and seen quite a bit that struck me as innovative, but nothing springs out from the 90s as unusual.

 

[Gundark]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but I would say that most of Pathfinders sales come from FLGS and the Paizo site. This would be why you wouldn't see them in the top 10 on Amazon, not to mention the PDFs.

Has Paizo made this claim? The PF core book is 30 bucks on Amazon vs. 50 on the Paizo website. LGS are going to sell pretty close to the cover price. Convensional wisdom would say that more people would buy it from Amazon.

Also there seems to be an underlying asumption (I could be wrong so please correct me) that people are only buying the 5e books from Amazon. My XP from checking out game stores is that 5e is selling very well, the LGS near my house sold out.

 

[Mistwell]

Emmmmm no.

To my knowledge usually means you don't fully know. Also, what Mearls means is that most 3rd edition stuff was bought in gaming stores and other book stores. Buying online was not big back then.

I think you are desperately trying to read into it more than what's there.

Black Ranger, you may well be the last person on the entire board who should be calling others desperate in this thread.

I appreciate your passion for PF. It's cool you have something you love so much. PF is cool, I like the guys who work at Paizo, so I understand what engenders this sort of reaction from you. I know you mean well by some of these things you're saying. But...you should not be telling anyone else they are desperately reading things into things.

Here are some facts:

1) It is incredibly difficult to get into the top 10 of all bestsellers on Amazon, and getting to #1 is enormously difficult - it's an extraordinary claim to say otherwise, and you're going to need some extraordinary proof to back up that claim;

2) What we are seeing right now represents a spike in sales - but it's a HUGE spike (thousands of sales an hour). It's meaningful. The meaning is not that D&D will outsell everything for all time, but it does mean something good for D&D at least in the short term;

3) PF would LOVE to be #1 in all bestsellers. ANY publisher of any kind would love to be #1 in all bestsellers. Because it represents literally thousands of books being sold per hour. Game stores are physically incapable of selling that many books per hour - there just are not that many game stores left, and they don't carry that level of inventory, to be able to sell thousands of books per hour even in the aggregate across all book stores Now that does not mean that game stores cannot outsell that number over time - they can. But, for the spike in sales going on right now, it's a pretty incredible thing to see. It's unprecedented. No edition of D&D has ever sold this many books in this short a period of time - that doesn't mean they have never sold this many books overall, I am just saying in this short a time span it's never happened, and that is noteworthy;

4) None of this has anything really to do with PF. In fact the very same people buying this book from Amazon can also over time buy books from PF. These sales are not mutually exclusive with PF sales. A sale of a D&D book does not mean a PF doesn't sell - it doesn't work that way. I am sure PF is doing just fine regardless of a huge spike in D&D book sales.

My point is - you do not need to freak out over this. You don't need to feel like you have to defend PF by saying things like "It's not hard to get to the top 10 in Amazon" or "Amazon doesn't represent most book sales" or "Buying online though Amazon was not big back [when Amazon fist became the #1 bookseller in the nation and took down half a dozen retail bookstores]."

And then you telling other people they are desperately reading things into what Mike Mearls is saying - wow, you REALLY don't need to do that to defend PF.

We're all D&D fans here. We're just admiring the implications here - that the nation still has this level of interest in our little game, even over a short period of time, is pretty awesome to witness. It's not a bad thing, not for Pathfinder or D&D or any RPG. This is a good thing for the hobby, however long it lasts. There's just no reason to be negative about it.