I want an invading army from beyond this dimension. Tell me about it.

[HeavenShallBurn]

The Liv Tyler/LOTR type pre-Raphaelite elves pretty much *are* the Aryan ideal, though. Especially the blond ones. 3e Mialee elves do look pretty odd though. So it depends what sort of elves your campaign has.

Depends, but I've never really seen D&D elves as LOTR elves for all that it was the inspiration. And the strong tendencies toward Order within the Nazi forces would be constantly at war with the Chaotic tendencies of the Elves.

 

[Slife]

Again agreement. Though I wouldn't have them tend toward Evil any more than any other group of humans. Most of the field forces had no real connection to the atrocities carried out, they were (with some exceptions) no different than any other soldiers so they shouldn't all just be stamped LE. If anything the regime always struck me as a strongly LN regime led by a cabal of LE individuals, utilizing the strong lawful tendencies of the population to get away with what they did.

Rommel's a good example of this.*

Hmm... maybe he's the leader of the invasion force (which would imply that the portal opened onto a desert area). That would prevent a simple detect evil on the commander from sending hordes of good-aligned characters against the invaders.


*Great quote from wikipedia: "There exists a real danger that our friend Rommel is becoming a kind of magical or bogey-man to our troops, who are talking far too much about him. He is by no means a superman, although he is undoubtedly very energetic and able. Even if he were a superman, it would still be highly undesireable that our men should credit him with supernatural powers."

 

[S'mon]

If anything the regime always struck me as a strongly LN regime led by a cabal of LE individuals, utilizing the strong lawful tendencies of the population to get away with what they did.

I see Nazism and similar totalitarian regimes as Chaotic in the Moorcockian or B/X D&D L-N-C system (I don't use G-N-E), but explaining why would veer towards 'politics'. Whether your in-game Nazis are 'nice' 'Brad Pitt in 7 Years in Tibet' Nazis, or nasty 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' Nazis, is up to you of course, but I think Nazism, like Communism, strongly encourages what D&D regards as Evil behaviour, and thus Evil Alignment.

 

[S'mon]

And the strong tendencies toward Order within the Nazi forces would be constantly at war with the Chaotic tendencies of the Elves.

IMC, as in BECMI D&D (& Tolkien), elves are Lawful, whereas Will-to-Power Control-Everything revolutionary radical types like Nazis are Chaotic, so this would actually be reversed.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Hmm... maybe he's the leader of the invasion force (which would imply that the portal opened onto a desert area). That would prevent a simple detect evil on the commander from sending hordes of good-aligned characters against the invaders.

That even gives me a solid hook. They go from one desert to another. The Nazi sorcerers could be using some long abandoned ancient city in the desert, and there are a few of those, as the place for the ritual that opens the Rift. Especially if you time the backstory so that it happens as Rommel was being forced to retreat and cut off from his supply lines in the Med. So instead he appropriates the unexpectedly successful efforts of the SS sorcerers and retreats through the Rift with the Afrika Corps. By this time he was already very dis-satisfied with Hitler, the upper echelons of the Party, and Regime. On top of that the Afrika Corps was even considering losses a large experienced force with considerable resources.

A Lawful NEUTRAL Nazi splinter regime invasion under the command of Rommel would just be supremely ironic.

*Great quote from wikipedia: "There exists a real danger that our friend Rommel is becoming a kind of magical or bogey-man to our troops, who are talking far too much about him. He is by no means a superman, although he is undoubtedly very energetic and able. Even if he were a superman, it would still be highly undesireable that our men should credit him with supernatural powers."

This I can't pass up not just Rommel, magical Rommel. After crossing over into D&D land have him begin manifesting powers as say a Crusader or Cleric.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

I see Nazism and similar totalitarian regimes as Chaotic in the Moorcockian or B/X D&D L-N-C system (I don't use G-N-E), but explaining why would veer towards 'politics'. Whether your in-game Nazis are 'nice' 'Brad Pitt in 7 Years in Tibet' Nazis, or nasty 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' Nazis, is up to you of course, but I think Nazism, like Communism, strongly encourages what D&D regards as Evil behaviour, and thus Evil Alignment.

Yeah let's not get this thread locked, especially when it's gone on so well up to now.

 

[Slife]

This I can't pass up not just Rommel, magical Rommel. After crossing over into D&D land have him begin manifesting powers as say a Crusader or Cleric.

The White Raven school seems most applicable, and synergies well with the tactics that the army would already be using. Blitzkrieg works well with extra maneuverability, and the maneuvers aren't so blatantly magical (and hence jarring) as, say, desert wind.

And of course, having a inter-faction conflict between a LN group consisting of most of the officer and footsoldiers lead by Rommel (loyal to Germany, but not necessarily to the Nazi party or Hitler) and the LE Nazi loyalists (with virtually all the warlocks) would be a nice twist.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

On the one hand, I'm loving the amount of really, really good stuff on cross-dimensional Nazis that is showing up in this thread.

OTOH...don't forget there ARE other ideas that have popped up in this thread that are worthy of discussion!

Assuming the GM has Detect spells register Nazis as Evil, these feelings presumably won't be reciprocated.

I often think about stuff like this in the various Paladin (because of their Detect Evil ability) threads that pop up. A lot of times, the grunts are just in it for the money. For a lot of Germans, being a Nazi soldiers was just a paycheck. It was the generally the guys at the top who were truly the evil ones.

IOW, depending upon the exact nature of the force in question, I think you'd see a variety of alignments.

One interesting thing to consider, however, is that once Nazis become aware of Detect Evil, might not some of the ones with an intact moral compass try to weed out the evil ones?

 

[S'mon]

One interesting thing to consider, however, is that once Nazis become aware of Detect Evil, might not some of the ones with an intact moral compass try to weed out the evil ones?

Hmm, maybe, but most of us have worked with people who are at least a little bit evil, haven't we? And in a war situation it's pretty obvious who the evil people are. But most people go along with social pressure to conform to the prevailing norms. I think the likeliest reaction from the Nazi leadership to Det Evil would be to reject the spell as a valid determinant of morality.

 

[S'mon]

OTOH...don't forget there ARE other ideas that have popped up in this thread that are worthy of discussion!

Keeping with the 'invading humans' theme, invasion from a Mirror Universe, Star Trek style, might be fun. That way you get to use the PCs as enemy NPCs!