I want an invading army from beyond this dimension. Tell me about it.

This is a crazy idea, really, but cough syrup and a short nap while the classic cartoon channel is on can do that.

They've been invaded by cartoons, cthonic cartoons. Far Realm entities so beyond the ability to interact with reality that they appear in real space as deranged cartoon versions of ordinary creatures/objects and other things that just don't make much sense. When killed they simply dissipate and have to wait to "respawn" from the tears in existence leading back to their realm. They're not actually malicious because they just don't understand how things work. But you can't reason with them and they can't even comprehend that you're attempting to communicate. Lovecraft meets Warner Brothers. They're very hard to "kill" and when attacked apply strangely horrible versions of cartoonish gags to "wounds" right up until the last one that finally destroys them. Upon which they melt/evaporate and the remains fade away as the animating entity laughs.

The point of the campaign would be stamping out the rifts that allow them to enter, as killing them isn't really helpful and there's nothing to DO on the other side to dissuade them.

Also has anyone here ever thought that Wackyland from those cartoons is actually a very good inspiration for the oddities of the Far Realm. You just need to layer some horror over it and change the visuals while keeping the same feel of unpredictable insanity.
 

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Dannyalcatraz said:
By Harry Turtledove? Most excellent!


So, a max range of 1200' and a 360' radius, as compared to a single precision WW2 Era 500kg bomb dropped from Ju87d at 27,000' (about 1/3 of its total payload), killing everything within a radius of 100', with a total blast radius of 1500'+?

Advantage, Nazis.

Okay but what about if we add a few Air Elemental Swarms, with a Call Lightning Storm layered on top....
 

Tonguez said:
Okay but what about if we add a few Air Elemental Swarms, with a Call Lightning Storm layered on top....

How about we add a couple of snipers with excellent scopes and hollow point bullets? Readied actions for when someone starts spellcasting. Add truesight for higher level targets.
 
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Tonguez and Dannyalcatraz said:
... (Nazi's vs D&D magic)...

You do realize that the two of you are now debating how known and real technology would interact with an abstract ruleset that evolved from a tactical miniatures game?

Sorry, but the absurdity of the premise of the debate has me laughing way too hard right now.

How about we all just agree that as a setting for a pen and paper based role playing game, it promises to be very entertaining.

END COMMUNICATION
 

Lord Zardoz said:
You do realize that the two of you are now debating how known and real technology would interact with an abstract ruleset that evolved from a tactical miniatures game?
It's not that bad. I mean, we aren't arguing about set theory yet.

Also, a Nazi-inspired cargo cult would be amusing.
 
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Tonguez and Dannyalcatraz
... (Nazi's vs D&D magic)...

You do realize that the two of you are now debating how known and real technology would interact with an abstract ruleset that evolved from a tactical miniatures game?

Sure do!

IMHO, Nazis (esp. those already searching for mystical power) would have the initial short term advantage due to the range & power of their first strike capability (depending upon size & nature of their initial forces), but would only retain that advantage by quick and early removal of key individuals (powerful spellcasters)...before they realize what that whistling sound in the sky or that flash of light from the treeline means. The Nazis would be going into each encounter in the new world with the mindset that they're encountering non-friendlies- not neccessarily the case with the fantasy world's natives.

A middling size force of well-equipped, intelligently commanded Nazis should be able to take over and control a decent sized piece of land, but wouldn't be able to go beyond those boundaries until they mastered the local tech as well.

Yes, traditional adventurer tactics would be affective against the Nazis, but would have to be adjusted to take account for the Nazi's equipment. You can use Rock to Mud to immobilize a Panzer, to be sure, but you still have to take out its 120mm gun with a 360deg firing arc.

Invisibility and other spells are all problems, but so are the grenades, flamethrowers & poison gas the Nazis have.

Here's a question...who do you think would be the race(s) the Nazis would be most likely to turn into allies? Slaves? (If any.)

Also, a Nazi-inspired cargo cult would be amusing.

I agree 100%!
 
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Dannyalcatraz said:
Sure do!
Kay nother won't hurt then

IMHO, Nazis (esp. those already searching for mystical power) would have the initial short term advantage due to the range & power of their first strike capability (depending upon size & nature of their initial forces), but would only retain that advantage by quick and early removal of key individuals (powerful spellcasters)...before they realize what that whistling sound in the sky or that flash of light from the treeline means. The Nazis would be going into each encounter in the new world with the mindset that they're encountering non-friendlies- not neccessarily the case with the fantasy world's natives.
The occult focus of the Nazi party came from a few members of the inner circle and was largely directed through Himmler who was himself very much into the occult aspects. It tended to be small specialized units within the SS under his orders who were sent out looking for occult objects. Such as the group sent up into the Himalayas and remote regions of Central Asia looking for the origins of the "Aryan" race.

So under this set of circumstances we can assume the Nazi Sorcerers within the effort to be a special unit of the SS. Probably detached and answering only to Himmler or one of his immediate staff members, on a direct order of the Fuhrer.

Once the rift was created things would get more interesting because unlike in our history now we'd have tangible results from the occult side. At this point anything could be on the other side, it's a complete unknown and thus the most extreme form of potential threat source given the occult nature of the rift. If this is happening later in the war it will be immediately viewed as a new line of retreat for Nazi forces. Even if happening earlier it will be viewed as a new and enticing source of lebenshraum.

A force will be mobilized to make the initial movement into the rift. This is nothing more solid than a WAG but I'd peg the initial force as probably equivalent to the invasion of Crete. There would be similarities in condition and goal, this would be a beachhead force. The other side would be unmapped and unknown with no infrastructure to support heavy or mechanized forces at first. Purely an infantry operation, likely carried out with either mountain troops or the Parachute Division they didn't reuse for that purpose after the losses at Crete. Both were highly trained light infantry trained to operate with limited material and fire support, while rapidly seizing or defending land through shock assault.

They would be treating any encounter as a meeting engagement. Can't blame them given they'd be stepping into a totally unknown situation. Even assuming they crossed in a remote area the "wildlife" of a typical D&D world is incredibly hostile. Regardless of the politics of the war and its aftermath German SS field force troops were highly competent on average. They would suffer casualties, but they would succeed in forming a beachhead.

Now for the real question: How would they deal with the natives?

This is speculation but I feel probably good speculation that they would likely kill Goblins, Orcs, and Bugbears on sight. Hobgoblins depending on how strong and large a population was encountered might be enticed into service as a client race or made slave-soldiers. This is largely a factor of how useful their ordered and regimented militarism would be. Might be they would just kill all the goblinoids on site but I think at least some they would feel usefull. Orcs are too chaotic for this. Halflings and Gnomes would depend on how they were encountered, the Nazi's didn't like Gypsies and if the halflings seemed too much like Gypsies might treat them similarly. On the other hand if they were a more hobbitish sort I can definitely see the Nazis leaving them to their farming and giving them a place as an underclass due to the psychological factor of their small size making them seem less of a threat and the need to establish sources of supply in the new land. Humans if encountered would go under martial law like any other German occupied territory. However their occultists would probably attempt to bring any local spellcasters onto their side. Those that didn't and weren't high level enough to use magic to escape would probably be executed as too great a threat to leave in the rear area. Elves would be enslaved, they simply do not fit into the Nazi social model and their habits and appearance would be far from the Aryan ideal being pushed. Dwarves would either end up at war or in an uneasy ceasefire. The Nazis would see a supply of badly needed resources, and if attacked the Dwarves would either die in their delves or retreat to the underdark. A trade in engineering and metallurgical techniques and such might develop.

The greatest question is how would they handle the truly monstrous intelligent races. Unintelligent monsters would be killed out of hand as the beasts they were to the Nazis. But some of the intelligent magical beasts and other would be an interesting fix. Depending on whether or not they could stop hostilities they might actually have a place for Giants. undead would probably be killed without hesitation, simply as a reaction issue. Outsiders in the prime material are variable but probably not well, angels are about the only exception and they don't tend to show up on the prime material that much. Dragons would be in trouble, every unit commander in the invading force would think no further than being known as a dragon slayer.
 

Dannyalcatraz said:
Here's a question...who do you think would be the race(s) the Nazis would be most likely to turn into allies? Slaves? (If any.)

Hobgoblins seem the most fascistic & militarist of the common races, so that's a possibility - except that as far as the Nazis are concerned, Nazis are good, but ugly tusk-faced subhumans must be evil, so *blam* (I saw a great comedy skit where two Nazis are sitting, looking at their caps: "Wait - there's a skull on this cap! You know what this means? It - it means *we're* the bad guys!").

Nazis might well identify D&D dwarves with Wagnerian Niebelung dwarves - I doubt Nazis read Tolkien - so they might well be hostile to dwarves, killing or enslaving them. They might see taller, Forgotten Realms type elves as Ubermensch and seek to ally with them (contrary to D&D's LE/CG alignment dichotomy); Nazis like Himmler with a pastoralist and neo-pagan bent might be particularly taken with the elves. They might see halflings as harmless and childlike, and be sentimental towards them, at least initially.

Overall, I'd think the Nazis would likely seek what they'd regard as compatible forces to ally with, identifying virtue with strength & power. It's important to note that they won't have a D&D Detect Evil/Know Alignment ability, at least initially, and will see themselves as the Good guys, so in eg Oerth they'd probably see powerful, virtuous human kingdoms like Furyondy as obvious allies. Assuming the GM has Detect spells register Nazis as Evil, these feelings presumably won't be reciprocated.
 

HeavenShallBurn said:
Elves would be enslaved, they simply do not fit into the Nazi social model and their habits and appearance would be far from the Aryan ideal being pushed.

The Liv Tyler/LOTR type pre-Raphaelite elves pretty much *are* the Aryan ideal, though. Especially the blond ones. 3e Mialee elves do look pretty odd though. So it depends what sort of elves your campaign has.
 

S'mon said:
Hobgoblins seem the most fascistic & militarist of the common races, so that's a possibility - except that as far as the Nazis are concerned, Nazis are good, but ugly tusk-faced subhumans must be evil, so *blam* (I saw a great comedy skit where two Nazis are sitting, looking at their caps: "Wait - there's a skull on this cap! You know what this means? It - it means *we're* the bad guys!").
Yep that's the problem, I'm almost convinced that they'd just kill all the goblinoids. But reserve the possibility that they might make some hobgoblins slave-soldiers ala the Mamalukes unlikely as that is.

Nazis might well identify D&D dwarves with Wagnerian Niebelung dwarves - I doubt Nazis read Tolkien - so they might well be hostile to dwarves, killing or enslaving them.
Dwarves they would probably not look at in a good light due to the Wagnerian influence. But at the same time they tend to squat on top of heavy mineral resources in delvings too deep for remote bombardment of the time to affect. If they did attack even with WW2 era equipment fighting through a dwarven underground city would be hideous for casualties, Plus I wouldn't expect them to be able to enslave Dwarves. It may be a personal thing but the fluff on the dwarves has always put me in mind of the WW2 Japanese, who would do almost anything not to be captured alive. Plus they have entrances into the Underdark from their cities to use as escape routes. So if attacked I see the Nazi forces gaining nothing more than an empty city and a few scattered dwarves. Most would escape deeper into the Underdark, where the Nazi would not be keen to follow. On the other hand if they don't attack I can see a reluctant and grudging trade relationship based on access to those metal resources and the fact it's easier to trade than attempt to manage it yourself.

They might see taller, Forgotten Realms type elves as Ubermensch and seek to ally with them (contrary to D&D's LE/CG alignment dichotomy); Nazis like Himmler with a pastoralist and neo-pagan bent might be particularly taken with the elves.
Could be, could be.

They might see halflings as harmless and childlike, and be sentimental towards them, at least initially.
Full agreement here, I think they would view the halflings as a natural born underclass. In need of the protection of their Regime in return for a place as farmers and craftsmen. Once a little time had gone by this could change, and if they encountered them in a way that drew parallels with Gypsies... Well the Nazis weren't real hot on the Romany.

Overall, I'd think the Nazis would likely seek what they'd regard as compatible forces to ally with, identifying virtue with strength & power. It's important to note that they won't have a D&D Detect Evil/Know Alignment ability, at least initially, and will see themselves as the Good guys, so in eg Oerth they'd probably see powerful, virtuous human kingdoms like Furyondy as obvious allies. Assuming the GM has Detect spells register Nazis as Evil, these feelings presumably won't be reciprocated.
Again agreement. Though I wouldn't have them tend toward Evil any more than any other group of humans. Most of the field forces had no real connection to the atrocities carried out, they were (with some exceptions) no different than any other soldiers so they shouldn't all just be stamped LE. If anything the regime always struck me as a strongly LN regime led by a cabal of LE individuals, utilizing the strong lawful tendencies of the population to get away with what they did.
 
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