I wish D&D could have been more heroic

[Edena_of_Neith]

To Dinkeldog

Posted by Dinkeldog

Dinkeldog
Dog of War (Moderator)

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Lombard, IL
Posts: 971

Edena's got some of the best trolls since Bugaboo.

Comment

If this is, truly, a Troll, that is unfortunate.
For I did not intend to create a Troll, and I have done my best not to Troll during this thread.
If my best courtesy and a real effort to simply be philosophical, creates a Troll, I am in trouble.

(sighs)

Not everyone in this world has an easy time socializing.
For some, socializing and being at ease among others is second nature. And those people are just plain likeable, and is generally held in esteem.
For some, trying to get along with other people, and being the kind of social, likeable person people want to talk to and deal with, requires a painful ordeal of an effort, the success rate is small, and the hope of success is not good.

(shrugs)

Not everyone in this Real World can be highly charismatic. Blessed are those who are.

 

[Tokiwong]

"Why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends..."

Lets just try and be civil folks

 

[Tokiwong]

Re: To Tokiwong

Tokiwong posted:

Comment

Hey there, Tokiwong!
By the way, I see from your info that you live in Oklahoma. The Red River Valley there is spectacular (everyone, imagine dirt roads. Now, imagine dirt roads that are a vivid, almost blood, red. So red and vivid they shine in the moonlight amidst the darkened fields. All of southern Oklahoma is like that.)
The Red River would be spectacular, if it had not dried up (which it did. I saw it for myself. A jaw dropper, this drought we are having in America.)

Yeah the Okie state is not bad, not my fave place, I am a California boy at heart, or maybe a Florida lad, not sure yet, but it is nice.

 

[zouron]

an IR on the alternate Oerth... could be fun, however I doubt I would be interested unless the Master of the IR was Edena... and even then I hope the rule structure would be more like the first then the third (it was a great IR but a bit pulled down by rules etc, I prefered the whee more free form version and all the secret emails are just boring for the rest of us )

 

[William Ronald]

Edena,

Don't feel bad about having less than heroic players. I put up with a few way back in high school, including a few whose idea of fun was to throw characters off ships. (Heck, I even had a DM who awarded experience points to someone who killed off a character of mine during an adventure.) However, I do agree with you about the resources younger players such as Anabstercorian and creamsteak now have. I would have loved to have had an EN World online when I was 17.

I hope you will be able to stay.

Getting back to the topic of heroism, I think DMs can decide to award heroic or exceptional actions and role playing. As you said, there are different forms of heroism. So one player might be rewarded for rallying an army to charge up a hill (a la Theodore Roosevelt and the Rough Riders) while another might be rewarded for courageously adhering to his principles in the face of adversity. (Osilovar might well qualify for the first, while Anora seems to have held to her principles even when opposed by close friends.)

Ian Payne qualifies as a hero from the IR as he found his faith at the end of his life, and valued his world more than his life.

A common trait that I have observed in real life heroes, whether they are warriors or pacifists, is the willingness to take a stand -- regardless of the price. I would argue that this is the essence of heroism.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Well, look at Forrester.
Forrester qualifies as a hero - to the humanoid peoples of Realmspace.
He stood up against the elves, their ancient enemies, he protected the humanoids against the illithid, and he ultimately raised the humanoids up to stand tall amidst the great civilizations of Realmspace.

One people's hero can be another's enemy.
Forrester was a hero to the humanoids. But certainly not to the elves!

Ian Payne was a hero. There is no question of that. No question at all.
But not all remember him as such.
The (few remaining) elves remember when he, as leader of the Technomancy, ignored the pleas of Evereska which Forrester besieged.
The (few remaining) elves remember when Evermeet pleaded for aid to the Technomancy, and the Technomancy remained neutral.

In Real Life, Joan of Arc was a hero to the French. She saved France from total destruction by England and Burgandy.
To the English, Joan of Arc was an enemy ... and certainly, when they captured her, they did not treat her like a captured hero, but rather they treated her like an enemy.

Being a hero is not a popularity contest!

 

[William Ronald]

Good points, Edena.

Sometimes one man's hero is another man's villain. (There are a LOT of historical figures, such as Napoleon, who fall into this category.) Such is often the case when different cultures have different views of history and historical figures. (I suspect there are still some elves on the IR's Toril who are not completely reconciled to Forrester -- such as the ones Zouron the Dark saved from the attack on Evermeet.)

Mind you, there can be honorable adversaries who respect each other's abilities -- while fighting each other. Perhaps one of the hardest enemies to fight is one whom you respect.

Being a hero is DEFINITELY not a popularity contest. Many historical heroes have been betrayed or ignored by allies, or been often misunderstood by their enemies. (If there was nothing for a hero to oppose, would that person still be a hero?) Indeed, some people hailed as heroes by their countrymen have been killed by them. (For example, Gandhi was killed by a fellow Indian as he was preparing to go to Pakistan.)