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D&D 5E I would really like a return of the old Bard class.

Corpsetaker

First Post
In my opinion, the Bard in 5th edition just reminds me of a singing wizard. I would love to see a Bard with less spellcasting, more melee combat, and more support for himself and his allies. I don't really understand this need to go all the way up to 9th level with spells but either way I don't like it. I wouldn't mind more of a focus on augmenting his musical abilities. Kind of like how the paladin uses his spell slots to increase his abilities.
 

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Horwath

Legend
I agree.

Bard should have been a half caster with more focus on ispiring himself and allies.

Maybe with added some "marshall" like auras for extra support.

with cleric, druid, sorcerer, wizard and let's say warlock we have enough of "full casters".
 

Prism

Explorer
Which kind of old bard do you mean? 1st edition druid based or 2nd edition wizard? 3rd edition

They are all very different but I like all of them. I have a particular fondness of the multiclass chaos of the 1st edition version
 

Illithidbix

Explorer
Which edition are you thinking about?

Valor Bard has about as much, if not more combat competency as I recall any edition of Bard (except the many superpowers of 4E) having.
 

TwoSix

"Diegetics", by L. Ron Gygax
Couldn't disagree more. 5e bard (especially Lore bard) is probably the single best class of the edition. If I had to pick one class to be the only caster class in the game, it would be bard.
 


Dausuul

Legend
Totally agree, bards should go back to the way they used to be. You should be required to get 5 levels in fighter and 5 levels in rogue before you can take your first bard level.

...Okay, more seriously: In principle, I like the idea of bards being partial casters and making up the difference with musical abilities. In practice, however, older-edition bards were very poorly thought out. That doesn't mean partial-caster bards can't be done well, but "a return of the old Bard class" is not the answer.
 

Corpsetaker

First Post
Totally agree, bards should go back to the way they used to be. You should be required to get 5 levels in fighter and 5 levels in rogue before you can take your first bard level. ...Okay, more seriously: In principle, I like the idea of bards being partial casters and making up the difference with musical abilities. In practice, however, older-edition bards were very poorly thought out. That doesn't mean partial-caster bards can't be done well, but "a return of the old Bard class" is not the answer.
The Pathfinder Bard is a fantastic class and one of the best iterations I've seen ever. I would like to see an alternative bard who is more able with his "song" abilities than his spellcasting.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
Ever wonder what a forum would look like without edition warring?
Which edition are you thinking about?

Valor Bard has about as much, if not more combat competency as I recall any edition of Bard (except the many superpowers of 4E) having.
Only a little teeny bit different, really.


We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread...

In my opinion, the Bard in 5th edition just reminds me of a singing wizard. I would love to see a Bard with less spellcasting, more melee combat, and more support for himself and his allies. I don't really understand this need to go all the way up to 9th level with spells but either way I don't like it.
Support, in 5e, so far comes mainly from spells, so fewer/lower-level spells and more support doesn't jibe. Adding more support spells to the bard list would fairly trivially let a given bard focus more on support, though, he just has to resist the temptation to load up on other spells at chargen & level-up. The Valor Bard already gets extra melee abilities...
I wouldn't mind more of a focus on augmenting his musical abilities. Kind of like how the paladin uses his spell slots to increase his abilities.
An option to burn spell slots to enhance melee, like the Paladin - though probably not exactly like the paladin, not for DPR, but for a group buff, for instance - could be another way to give it 'more melee.'

Apart from that, stripping spell ability is beyond what any sub-class has yet entailed. But, a Fighter sub-class, 'Skald' perhaps, that is to the Bard what an EK is to the Wizard might be on the table. It would have far less support capability than the Bard, of course, but more melee ability. I suppose, for the more 2e-style Bard (it was a Rogue sub-class), a similar scheme could work with the AT as a guide.
 
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