Ice Archon

[SeRiAlExPeRiMeNtS]

Not very well at all. It would be pretty much a icebreaking party, I would think. All stats are across the board higher for the Pit Fiend, including movement and saving throws. Much better and more numerous special abilities, particularly including the power to summon monsters. Do we know what level the Ice Archon is supposed to be?

If the +9 to the warhammer attack damage is his STR Bonus, like the pit fiend, his level is 18 (the listed STR bonus is +18 so 1/2 level is 9)

 

[pawsplay]

Oh, I don't think it's that silly. The Ice Archon's primary attack has a freezing component that slows the opponent, presumably representing the impeding effects of ice and chill. Since this is the Archon's primary attack, it is specially aware of how to take advantage of opponents hindered by slowed reactions, thus extra damage. Since D&D combat is rather abstract, you could represent it as more successful strikes overall or the ability to reach a more vulnerable spot that an opponent with normal reflexes could typically defend. It's just representing the ability to follow up a successful slowing strike to full effect.

It wouldn't even make the Top 100 silly things in the D&D Monster Manuals, let alone RPGs, IMO.

Then why doesn't it work on paralyzed opponents? I mean, yes, you can totally abstract it, but to the level of leaving me wondering... what is this supposed to represent in the first place?

I do take it back... the populace in Rifts' Wormwood being unable to harm each other at all is sillier. This still makes the top ten, no sweat.

 

[FourthBear]

Then why doesn't it work on paralyzed opponents? I mean, yes, you can totally abstract it, but to the level of leaving me wondering... what is this supposed to represent in the first place?

I don't think there's any need to totally abstract it. It's pretty straightforward: Ice Archons have an attack that commonly slows opponents. They are very good at exploiting the lowered defenses and reflexes of slowed foes. They've been given a special attack that takes advantage of this, both increasing their attack bonus and damage to slowed foes. Frankly, I don't really see what's silly about it.

Could you also justify this working against paralyzed opponents? Quite possibly. I assume that being paralyzed and having an opponent actively attacking you in 4e results in penalties so nasty that the special Relentless Strike attack would be superfluous. Could they have added it into the card? Sure, I guess. Since the Ice Archon has a slowing strike and not a paralyzing one, I don't think the added text would come in that handy.

Oh and I bet I could come up with 10 sillier things right in the 3.5e Monster Manual. The clay golem's irreversible berserk chance comes to mind. Who creates those stupid things?

 

[HeinorNY]

Then why doesn't it work on paralyzed opponents? I mean, yes, you can totally abstract it, but to the level of leaving me wondering... what is this supposed to represent in the first place?

I do take it back... the populace in Rifts' Wormwood being unable to harm each other at all is sillier. This still makes the top ten, no sweat.

The bonus damage is probably not against any slowed opponent, but only those slowed by his cold attack. If the opponent is slowed by being all frozen up, it makes some sense.
But the way the power is written really doesn't help towards that explanation, it's probably the idea, and if it is, the card is poorly written.

 

[pawsplay]

I don't think there's any need to totally abstract it. It's pretty straightforward: Ice Archons have an attack that commonly slows opponents. They are very good at exploiting the lowered defenses and reflexes of slowed foes. They've been given a special attack that takes advantage of this, both increasing their attack bonus and damage to slowed foes. Frankly, I don't really see what's silly about it.

Well, it's probably one of those "if you don't get it I can't tell you about it" kind of things. I'm just picturing myself trying to explain to, say, a non-gamer, "Ice devils are especially capable at attacking opponents who are slowed." There is a point at which game-speak crawls into my brain and simply won't leave, and +10 damage versus opponents who are slowed is definitely over that line. Since their opponents are likely slowed most of the time anyway, why not just average in the effect into their stats? It's such a large effect, I expect it to be meaningful in some way. I'm trying to picture how you would describe the power in flavor text as it occured in combat.

Could you also justify this working against paralyzed opponents? Quite possibly. I assume that being paralyzed and having an opponent actively attacking you in 4e results in penalties so nasty that the special Relentless Strike attack would be superfluous. Could they have added it into the card? Sure, I guess. Since the Ice Archon has a slowing strike and not a paralyzing one, I don't think the added text would come in that handy.

That, I think, is what separates functional game design from superb design. As a writer or a GM, I think you definitely have to think, "What could come up that I haven't thought of yet?"

Oh and I bet I could come up with 10 sillier things right in the 3.5e Monster Manual. The clay golem's irreversible berserk chance comes to mind. Who creates those stupid things?

See, that's where we disagree. That's awesome. Magical servitors should nearly always have a chance of their master losing control, causing the creature to go on a devastating rampage.

 

[pawsplay]

The bonus damage is probably not against any slowed opponent, but only those slowed by his cold attack. If the opponent is slowed by being all frozen up, it makes some sense.

To me, that actually makes less sense. Now we are in the realm of a special attack versus opponents who have been slowed in a very specific way.

 

[HeinorNY]

To me, that actually makes less sense. Now we are in the realm of a special attack versus opponents who have been slowed in a very specific way.

It's actually very simple.
The Ice Archon hits you with cold damage and you are slowed (that's not hard to imagine).
The next round, if the Ice Archon attacks you again, he'll have a better chance of hitting and will deal more damage. He is only attacking and hitting the same target, thus dealing more damage. That's why it's called Relentless Strike BTW.
That's the idea behind the combination of powers, that's what the designer had in mind, in my humble interpretation of course.

 

[pawsplay]

But why?

And isn't slow + punishment for being slow dangerously close to a save-or-die effect?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The bonus damage is probably not against any slowed opponent, but only those slowed by his cold attack. If the opponent is slowed by being all frozen up, it makes some sense.
But the way the power is written really doesn't help towards that explanation, it's probably the idea, and if it is, the card is poorly written.

It's only the stat card, I guess it doesn't really have to explain more than how the mechanics work.

I would guess as a concession to versimilitude - and as a chance to grant Ice Archons working with other slowing monsters a nice tactical benefit - it works on all types of slowed monsters...

 

[FourthBear]

See, that's where we disagree. That's awesome. Magical servitors should nearly always have a chance of their master losing control, causing the creature to go on a devastating rampage.

Sorry, it's pretty much the definition of silly, IMO. Every round it's in combat, there's a cumulative 1% chance it goes *permanently* and *irreversibly* berserk. That means that the average clay golem will only get through 10 rounds on combat *in its entire existence* before going berserk (depending on the average length of a combat encounter). That's a billion times sillier than this Relentless Strike stuff. It's fine if you assume that the clay golem only came into existence a round before the PCs showed up on the scene and that its creator couldn't give a crap about it going out of control as every clay golem ever created must have (again, within about ten total rounds of combat). What kind of idiot would spend that kind of money on a guard that is guaranteed to go berzerk so quickly? It only makes sense in a "the world only exists when the PCs interact with it" kind of way.