Ice Archon

[Derren]

And how does the article contradicts that?

Read again, W&M doesn't say elementals have flesh and bone. It says they are LIKE the efreeti,

World & Monster also says elementals in 4e are not "burning flame" type elementals, they are like the efreeti who still has flesh and bones.

When I said that I assumed you quoted W&M and did not make stuff up. Yes, that was my fault.
I will correct it. The Ecology of the Fire Archon article proves you wrong.
Better?

Your whole argument seems to be based on the first sentence of that article, which is just fluffy description. When discussing the "physiology" of a creature, it's just better to read its, uhh.. physiological description....

First sentence of the Physiology chapter: "Fire archons exist as creatures of living flame, but their bodies aren't so mutable as a flickering fire."

So when the physiology section of the article says they are made out of living flame, what makes you think that they aren't?

 

[HeinorNY]

First sentence of the Physiology chapter: "Fire archons exist as creatures of living flame, but their bodies aren't so mutable as a flickering fire."

So when the physiology section of the article says they are made out of living flame, what makes you think that they aren't?

The same physiology section, when it "corrects" and broadens that statement: "Although made of transparent and flickering flames, and apparently empty of organs, a fire archon has a solid form. Those brave enough to have touched a fire archon's body describe it as being like holding a boiling bag of writhing snakes. A fire archon held in this way is certainly very hot, but it does not truly burn. The archon can set things ablaze with its body, but this seems to require some concentration ".

 

[Derren]

That does not "correct" anything. it just means that living flame feels different then what you expect. But it doesn't change that it is living flame.

 

[HeinorNY]

Also, you are confusing "living fire" with "incorporeality".
Archons are not incorporeal, they have solid bodies.
If their bodies are solid, they are made of molecules.
If the are made of molecules, they can be harmed by too high or too low temperatures.

This is as far as I go in the "scientific" rationalization.

Fire and Ice Archond can be harmed by fire and cold because their creators decided to make them that way. Maybe because they feared that a creature truly immune could become too dangerous to control, or maybe they didn't have enough power to make them fully immune.

That's a much better and cooler funnier explanation IMO.

 

[evillives]

I see the simmy explanation to the ice archon's "resists but not immune to cold" thing as this:

All living creatures have a range of temps in which they are most comfortable. Push a critter too far in either direction, and you get damage and possibly death. Elemental creatures live, although in a state very different from mundane life.

Perhaps elemental ice creatures have a comfortable range of temps between -75 F and -15 F, and magical cold pushes them outside their extremes to one side or another. Perhaps, from their point of view, magical cold is untolerably hot. Of course with that explanation, room temp would be a blast furnace.

 

[HeinorNY]

That does not "correct" anything.

Yes it does. It corrects our intuitive understanding that by "living fire", archons would be incorporeal.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I don't have a clue, but you get some liquid nitrogen, and I'll provide some ice cubes, and we can have a little experiment if you wish.

Whatever happens, I'm sure it will be cool.

Shouldn't that be awesome, or splendid, or something?




Oh wait...

 

[Derren]

Yes it does. It corrects our intuitive understanding that by "living fire", archons would be incorporeal.

Our? You mean yours.
According to WotC understanding living fire feels solid.

 

[HeinorNY]

According to WotC understanding living fire feels solid.

No. It doesn't feel solid, it is solid. "Although made of transparent and flickering flames, and apparently empty of organs, a fire archon has a solid form".

If it is solid, it's made of molecules, and it can be harmed by high and low temperatures.

 

[Derren]

If it is solid, it's made of molecules, and it can be harmed by high and low temperatures.

Force spells (for example the wall) disagree with you.