Ideas for a viking campaign needed

[Jolly Giant]

An idea for keeping the game low-magic is to have characters start as Warriors or Experts and advance 5 levels in these NPC classes before qualifying for PC classes such as Barbarian, Bard, Fighter, Ranger, or Rogue.

That way, PHB classes would become your "prestige classes."

This is very, very close to what I'm planning, except I'm making my own variant classes and "prestige classes". It's still a work in progress, but here's my draft for a viking warrior class:

d12 HD
BAB=HD
Saves: Good fort
Skill points: 4/lvl
Bonus feat (from a list very like the ftr list) at lvl 2,5,8 and every 3 levels there after.
Proficient with all simple and martial weapons, armors and shields (some martial weapons from the phb will be considered exotic in this setting)

Nothing to drastic, in other words. Basically a fighter with fewer feats and more skills and HP; a ftr/brb blend. Class skills will include knowledge (geography and religion), profession (sailor), use rope, balance, ride, jump, climb, intimidate and diplomacy.

PrCs for warriors will include a barbarian variant and a dwarven defender variant.

There will also be expert-like classes; navigator, smith, skald and maybe a few others. These will have d8 HP, BAB like a cleric, 6-8 skill points per level and 2 good saves. They'll be proficient with all simple weapons and maybe a limtied number of martial weapons.

 

[Rackhir]

Well, since you are almost certainly more knowledgeable about Viking culture than we are, what are some of the re-occuring themes in Viking sagas. I understand revenge plays very heavily in them?

If you are looking for fantastic takes on norse mythology, you might want to try looking through some old Marvel Thor comics. Especially the Walter Simonson run which is collected in trade paperbacks. High level D&D char are essentially superheroes in many regards.

Lots of sailing seems appropriate to a viking campaign (doesn't Viking mean something related to travel/pillaging?), digging up and working out ocean traveling encounters and rules should be useful.

You could always try reworking the Ring cycle into your campaign. Perhaps you could even have it go generational and once the players hit x level. They make up their children and run them from the same level onward (so they're not loosing out on advancement. It would also give them a chance to perhaps to switch character types and try something new.

 

[Desdichado]

Well, since you are almost certainly more knowledgeable about Viking culture than we are, what are some of the re-occuring themes in Viking sagas. I understand revenge plays very heavily in them?

Err... that's a bit of an odd take. It's not like 1000 year old viking culture is still practiced in Norway today. I've got a fair amount of Scandinavian ancestry myself, and that, coupled with my general interest in mythology and history means I know a fair amount about Norse mythology. But certainly the fact that I live in North America doesn't have anything to do with that; you have to do the research.

If you are looking for fantastic takes on norse mythology, you might want to try looking through some old Marvel Thor comics. Especially the Walter Simonson run which is collected in trade paperbacks. High level D&D char are essentially superheroes in many regards.

The Thor comic books are not very Norse-like in... well, just about any respect except for a few proper nouns. You'd get a lot closer with The Thirteenth Warrior than with Marvel Thor. Although it's clearly lower magic, lower level and gritty.

Lots of sailing seems appropriate to a viking campaign (doesn't Viking mean something related to travel/pillaging?), digging up and working out ocean traveling encounters and rules should be useful.

That's what most history books tell you, but the fact of the matter is, the original word viking and its usage is not well agreed by historians and linguists. For that matter, although the infamous vikings were raiders/pirates, the famous ones were settlers and traders first. Vikings were important components of Pre-Norman England, contributing such basic words as sky, egg, skill, they, etc. to our vocabulary from their settlements in Danelaw. The galloglas were a class of Gaelic-Norse warriors from the Orknies and northern Scotland. Dublin was founded as a viking city, as was Kiev, Novgorod, Iceland, Greenland, and Vinland. I think you're right; sailing is an important facet of a viking campaign, but it's not true that all vikings did was sail around and raid their weaker neighbors.

You could always try reworking the Ring cycle into your campaign. Perhaps you could even have it go generational and once the players hit x level. They make up their children and run them from the same level onward (so they're not loosing out on advancement. It would also give them a chance to perhaps to switch character types and try something new.

That's not specifically Norse either, though -- the ring cycle was made famous as German mythology by Wagner, Grimm and others. Although it works fine as a skeleton of a campaign, if you like that kinda thing.

 

[Rackhir]

Err... that's a bit of an odd take. It's not like 1000 year old viking culture is still practiced in Norway today. I've got a fair amount of Scandinavian ancestry myself, and that, coupled with my general interest in mythology and history means I know a fair amount about Norse mythology. But certainly the fact that I live in North America doesn't have anything to do with that; you have to do the research.

The Thor comic books are not very Norse-like in... well, just about any respect except for a few proper nouns. You'd get a lot closer with The Thirteenth Warrior than with Marvel Thor. Although it's clearly lower magic, lower level and gritty.

That's not specifically Norse either, though -- the ring cycle was made famous as German mythology by Wagner, Grimm and others. Although it works fine as a skeleton of a campaign, if you like that kinda thing.

I am aware that the citizens of Norway are not the vikings. Their longboats would be sunk quite easily by Anti-Ship guided missiles, which makes rading Europe rather difficult. Also I don't think that's permitted under the EU treaties either.

However, he did mention that he lived within sight of 3 important places in Viking history. Which does tend to imply a greater knowledge of things than that which is taught in US schools. Also I know that the Viking Sagas are widely read and studied in Iceland, which could mean that there might be more taught and read about the vikings in Norway as well. The Vikings being their ancestors and such.

I have also found that trying to explain things to others means I have to better organize my thoughts and information. So if he were to fill us in on what he knows about such things, it might help him come up with some ideas or at least give the rest of us some basis to work off of.

I had kind of figured that Thor wasn't exactly accurate, given that one time they equipped a bunch of norse warriors with m16s for an assault on Hel. However, he was talking about having the char possibly crossing over Bifrost to adventure in Asgard. Inaccurate it may be, but it does at least have some ideas for what asgard could be like and possibly some monsters as well. Comic book creators are frequently weak on accuracy, but are also known for being highly imaginative. The 13th warrior had already been mentioned several times and is apparently not viewed with much respect in Norway at least according to his comments.

Yes, the Ring Cycle is german mythology, but it is based on Norse mythology. He is after all looking for ideas and not a primer on comparative history.

 

[Jolly Giant]

I understand revenge plays very heavily in them?
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Lots of sailing seems appropriate to a viking campaign (doesn't Viking mean something related to travel/pillaging?), digging up and working out ocean traveling encounters and rules should be useful.
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You could always try reworking the Ring cycle into your campaign.

Revenge was indeed very important! Exacting a revenge that was sufficiently dire, while still not being completely over the top, earned you the respect of your fellow men.
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There'll definitely be sailing. The quality of viking ships, along with the superior quality of their steel, was probably the two most important reasons for their success as traders and raiders. Besides being fast and handling themselves very well on high seas, their ships could sail very shallow waters. Which meant they could sail up rivers, and could shake of pursuers by sailing where others couldn't. (The caribbean pirates always used small ships for this very purpose, btw.) This was especially important along the coasts of Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands, where there are lots of places with water too shallow for most ships. I made quite a lot of rules for ships and sailing for my current campaign, which originally started out as a pirate campaign, so I'm pretty much covered there.
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The Ring of the Nebelungs! Yes, that could make for a nice long-term story-ark. Definitely worth thinking about.

 

[Jolly Giant]

That's what most history books tell you, but the fact of the matter is, the original word viking and its usage is not well agreed by historians and linguists. For that matter, although the infamous vikings were raiders/pirates, the famous ones were settlers and traders first. Vikings were important components of Pre-Norman England, contributing such basic words as sky, egg, skill, they, etc. to our vocabulary from their settlements in Danelaw. The galloglas were a class of Gaelic-Norse warriors from the Orknies and northern Scotland. Dublin was founded as a viking city, as was Kiev, Novgorod, Iceland, Greenland, and Vinland. I think you're right; sailing is an important facet of a viking campaign, but it's not true that all vikings did was sail around and raid their weaker neighbors.

Glad to see there are somebody outside Scandinavia and Great Britain who knows their vikings! As you say, the word viking had several uses. For the norse it could be a noun, indicating a raiding trip across the seas or a warrior who had been on such a raid (an experienced warrior, in other words). It was also used as a verb; "to go viking" meant to go on a raid.

As for history books, Norwegian ones doesn't portray the vikings as raiders only.

 

[Jolly Giant]

...I don't think that's permitted under the EU treaties either.

That's ok, Norway's not a member!

 

[Desdichado]

However, he did mention that he lived within sight of 3 important places in Viking history. Which does tend to imply a greater knowledge of things than that which is taught in US schools. Also I know that the Viking Sagas are widely read and studied in Iceland, which could mean that there might be more taught and read about the vikings in Norway as well. The Vikings being their ancestors and such.

Anyone who lives in the UK or Western Russia probably lives not far from 3 important Viking sites as well. And just because viking history is taught, that doesn't mean good viking history is taught. I mean, it might be, and it might not be. A lot of the American history I learned in school is flat out bad history, and not even true.

I had kind of figured that Thor wasn't exactly accurate, given that one time they equipped a bunch of norse warriors with m16s for an assault on Hel. However, he was talking about having the char possibly crossing over Bifrost to adventure in Asgard. Inaccurate it may be, but it does at least have some ideas for what asgard could be like and possibly some monsters as well. Comic book creators are frequently weak on accuracy, but are also known for being highly imaginative.

Not nearly so much as reading an actual book on the mythology, though. I greatly prefer something closer to the real deal -- nothing beats reading Sturleson's Edda for Norse mythology.

The 13th warrior had already been mentioned several times and is apparently not viewed with much respect in Norway at least according to his comments.

Oh, it's not viewed with m uch respect here either; it flopped big time and is not considered a good movie by mainstream America. Doesn't mean that it's not a darn good movie, though.

Yes, the Ring Cycle is german mythology, but it is based on Norse mythology. He is after all looking for ideas and not a primer on comparative history.

OK, that's flat out wrong and doesn't make any sense. The Germans didn't base their mythology on Norse mythology; rather the Germans and the Scandinavians both based their mythology on their common inheritated proto-Germanic mythology. It's just that the Germans were Christianized first, so we have better records of the Norse versions of their shared mythology.

 

[Jolly Giant]

...nothing beats reading Sturleson's Edda for Norse mythology.

Couldn't agree more! Full of excellent tales and brilliant plot-ideas for a RPG. And required reading in Norwegian schools, I might add! But I'd very much like to take the PCs through some real-world adventures before taking the campaign to the mythological level, and it's ideas for this part of the campaign I'm looking for.

Since it's treathening to derail the thread I'll quickly go through the three places of historical importance outside my windows:

1) A very long, very narrow straight/sound that runs south to north on the western coast of Norway. In viking times this straight was considered to be the most strategically vital part of geography in Norway. In fact, historians believe that it gave the nation its name; that this straight is the "Road to the north" or "north way" as the vikings would have put it. My house lies 30 ft from the water.

2) By the water, across the straight from my house (800-900 ft away) is where the very first king of Norway used to live, back in the early 10th century. He went by the name of Harald Hårfagre (Harald the fair-haired). Before his time Norway was a loose alliance of many, many tiny kingdoms. He was courting a girl named Gyda, but she said she wouldn't marry him until he ruled all of Norway; thinking she'd be rid of him. He in turn swore to conquer all of Norway, vowing not to cut his hair or beard until he was done. It took him many years, but he made it. He cut his hair and beard again, went and got his girl and settled down to rule the new nation right across from where I live today. (Not because he was from around here, but because of the strategic importance of the straight; he is quoted in Snorre as saying "he who controls this straight controls Norway".) The place remained the royal seat for many generations; up until christianity raised its ugly head. The second christian church to be built in Norway is still there (the very first one lies a bit north of town, my fathers christening was held there and my grandmothers funeral). A historical society has built a big viking farm (complete with longship!) where the kings' used to be and arrange a week-long viking festival there every summer.

3) A underwater rock, down the straight a bit. (Doesn't sound like much, I know. Read on!) You can see the waves breaking over it when the tide is low. People who where found guilty of witchery and other particularly heineous crimes where chained and left on that rock during low tide. It's called Skratteskjær ("Laughing rock") because people would gather around it in their boats, laughing at the condemned as the tide slowly rised. There's an picture in the oldest illustrated version of Snorres history of the Norwegian kings; three heads just peeking over the waves, screaming as they wait for the tide to rise that last little bit...

 

[talien]

Frost & Fur has a whole chapter dedicated to the Norse: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0972819754/michaeltrescaA/

Just saying.