Ideas for Tome of Magic II

[Nifft]

Okay, I'm a bit focused on seeing new mechanics, as I usually separate fluff from crunch quite heavily, because I can make up my fluff on my own (I'm won't say anything 'bout the quality... may vary wildly) - still, more fluff on a cleric would be nice, similar to the Core Belief-articles... and appropriate mechanics would help. Class abilities are helpful to reinforce the personality of a character within the game-world, since his class abilities are the character means to interact with the game-world.

That would be cool.

Clerics that have reduced spellcasting, but a lot of class abilities to make up for it. That would make it easier to customize "specialist priests" for specific settings.

I'd buy that, too.

 

[Cadfan]

It would be easy enough to take the Tome of Battle mechanics, and make a caster class out of it.

The mechanic is a solid one, and its generic enough that you could add almost any flavor you chose. Its simply a mechanic on which you could build a system.

I doubt they will do this, but if they did, it would work.

 

[Razz]

And here comes Razz to ruin the fun! *is kidding* I honestly see your point Razz, but I'm hoping they offer ways that don't include base classes.

Nifft,

Some were alright (Blood Magic, Chaos Magic, ley line magic, and Elementalism), but some like Demonology were kind of poor.

Yeah I want to see more details done too for those ideas as well, blood and oath magics would be very nice.

Yeah, I know, being a realist is a double-edged sword these days

Actually I would really enjoy a Tome of Magic II if it didn't rely on new base classes to truly make the best of the new magic subsystem. You got me there.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

Honestly, though all of the magic variations out there are interesting, I'd like to see a reworked option for default magic.

How about a pure spellcaster class that has access to any & every sort of spell out there (arcane & divine, though it'd be treated all as arcane for the class) rather than being restricted to a single spell list? They could have it like the wizard class, where spells have to be researched/learned in order to use them, & they have to be prepared beforehand. Have this option as a replacement for all of the various spellcaster classes out there, or have it as the main spellcaster class, with various other spellcaster classes being more of themed specialists (like dread necromancers, beguilers, warmages, healers, warlocks, and even sorcerers in comparison to wizards).

Or, how about a paired-down core spell list option that provides generic versions of magics (notably attack spells), which can be simply modified by adding a theme/style to it. For example, having magic missile as a default 1st-level attack spell, which by default does force damage. However, why not allow a built-in option (rather than burning feats) where you can use a specific sort of energy instead (fire/acid/cold/electric/sonic), which provides additional benefits & drawbacks (maybe does a d6+1 damage instead of a d4+1, or has side effects like igniting flamable materials or continuous damage, but has the limits of not of being foiled by energy resistances, not working in certain environments, etc.).

Or how about a system that trades off degrees of success/potency for increased variables/limits? No-save spells or automatic-hit spells do the least amount of damage/have the shortest range/have the shortest duration, but duration/range/damage could be increased if the chances for complete success were reduced: making an automatic-hit spell more potent by allowing a save for half damage, or making it a ranged touch attack or even a ranged attack; increasing a spell's duration by allowing a save, reducing range, or giving it a HD cap; or even increasing a spell's range by allowing for a save or reducing duration.

Then again, how about providing rules/options for a more low-magic approach (if DMs want magic to have more of a mystique about it)? Maybe giving options for rangers, paladins, bards, & other partial-caster classes as non-spellcasting variants? Providing optional versions of the full-caster classes (druid, cleric, wizard, sorcerer, etc.) with limited 0-5th level spell access instead of the usual 0-9th level access?

What about non-fiendish Warlocks? Not just PrCs that provide the option, but full-fledged core classes? A divinely-powered Warlock (more akin to a cleric or druid)? A fey-powered/themed Warlock? A self-taught Warlock (not relying on any source for their powers, but just tapping the magic source directly & getting Invocations/Abilities directly)? Heck, how about a psionic version of the Warlock class?

 

[Andor]

Honestly, though all of the magic variations out there are interesting, I'd like to see a reworked option for default magic.

How about a pure spellcaster class that has access to any & every sort of spell out there (arcane & divine, though it'd be treated all as arcane for the class) rather than being restricted to a single spell list? They could have it like the wizard class, where spells have to be researched/learned in order to use them, & they have to be prepared beforehand. Have this option as a replacement for all of the various spellcaster classes out there, or have it as the main spellcaster class, with various other spellcaster classes being more of themed specialists (like dread necromancers, beguilers, warmages, healers, warlocks, and even sorcerers in comparison to wizards).

*shrug* Just take the Archivist and declare he can learn arcane spells too. Work done.

Or, how about a paired-down core spell list option that provides generic versions of magics (notably attack spells), which can be simply modified by adding a theme/style to it. For example, having magic missile as a default 1st-level attack spell, which by default does force damage. However, why not allow a built-in option (rather than burning feats) where you can use a specific sort of energy instead (fire/acid/cold/electric/sonic), which provides additional benefits & drawbacks (maybe does a d6+1 damage instead of a d4+1, or has side effects like igniting flamable materials or continuous damage, but has the limits of not of being foiled by energy resistances, not working in certain environments, etc.).

We have the XPH for this. Also already done.

Or how about a system that trades off degrees of success/potency for increased variables/limits? No-save spells or automatic-hit spells do the least amount of damage/have the shortest range/have the shortest duration, but duration/range/damage could be increased if the chances for complete success were reduced: making an automatic-hit spell more potent by allowing a save for half damage, or making it a ranged touch attack or even a ranged attack; increasing a spell's duration by allowing a save, reducing range, or giving it a HD cap; or even increasing a spell's range by allowing for a save or reducing duration.

Power attack and combat expertise for spells eh? Sounds like a varient metamagic system. It would make a nice write up. Although it sounds to me like the sort of campaign option more suited to Unearthed Arcana 2 than ToM 2.

Then again, how about providing rules/options for a more low-magic approach (if DMs want magic to have more of a mystique about it)? Maybe giving options for rangers, paladins, bards, & other partial-caster classes as non-spellcasting variants? Providing optional versions of the full-caster classes (druid, cleric, wizard, sorcerer, etc.) with limited 0-5th level spell access instead of the usual 0-9th level access?

All of this has already been done, or can be done with next to no trouble. Either declare that you cannot take 2 levels of a spell casting class in a row, or use the prestige caster classes from d20 modern. Either way you end up capping out at 5th level. And non-spellcasting varients of Paladins and Rangers are in print in both UA and Complete Warrior I believe.

What about non-fiendish Warlocks? Not just PrCs that provide the option, but full-fledged core classes? A divinely-powered Warlock (more akin to a cleric or druid)? A fey-powered/themed Warlock? A self-taught Warlock (not relying on any source for their powers, but just tapping the magic source directly & getting Invocations/Abilities directly)? Heck, how about a psionic version of the Warlock class?

Fey is already one of the possible power sources for Warlocks, that's the "or chaotic" in the alignment restrictions. If you want divine or self taught Warlocks just remove the alignment restrictions entirely and allow the player to alter the special effects of his powers to be less creepy. No new book needed, just a GM with 1/2 an ounce of imagination. That having been said I would welcome more stuff for warlocks, although they are actually getting pretty good support honestly. They tend to get a few new innvocations in most books the days, and considering the pitiful umber of invocations even a high level warlock gets, that's a lot of support. There are even some warlock friendly feats in the complete mage.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

*shrug* Just take the Archivist and declare he can learn arcane spells too. Work done.

Or declare that the wizard can learn divine spells. But, reason why I said making a new core class with tis in mind is because I think it'll really shift the way magic works in D&D. I think there's some good reason (other than "sacred cows") why there's still the divine magic/arcane magic split.

We have the XPH for this. Also already done.

But not an XPH, power-point based version. A spells-per-day/spell-slot version. And as an optional system to replace the existing one, not another system that can be used alongside the existing one. And a way to cut down on the umpteen different versions of spells out there, & doing it without requiring a spellcaster to burn a feat to do it.

Power attack and combat expertise for spells eh? Sounds like a varient metamagic system. It would make a nice write up. Although it sounds to me like the sort of campaign option more suited to Unearthed Arcana 2 than ToM 2.

Sorta-kinda. More of a "greater risks, greater rewards" approach that doesn't just have to be combat-related.

All of this has already been done, or can be done with next to no trouble. Either declare that you cannot take 2 levels of a spell casting class in a row, or use the prestige caster classes from d20 modern. Either way you end up capping out at 5th level. And non-spellcasting varients of Paladins and Rangers are in print in both UA and Complete Warrior I believe.

The prestige caster classes ala d20 Modern are more or less what I had in mind, except as a 20-level core class for D&D instead. As for non-casting paladins/rangers, I need to double-check Complete Warrior, though I didn't see that option at all in UA.

Fey is already one of the possible power sources for Warlocks, that's the "or chaotic" in the alignment restrictions. If you want divine or self taught Warlocks just remove the alignment restrictions entirely and allow the player to alter the special effects of his powers to be less creepy. No new book needed, just a GM with 1/2 an ounce of imagination. That having been said I would welcome more stuff for warlocks, although they are actually getting pretty good support honestly. They tend to get a few new innvocations in most books the days, and considering the pitiful umber of invocations even a high level warlock gets, that's a lot of support. There are even some warlock friendly feats in the complete mage.

But the power/invocation list isn't so fey-based--it's still quite fiendish-oriented. But I was shooting for a non-stop ability-using class like Warlock that covers other areas--like imagine a divine Warlock-type class that could heal 1d6 damage an unlimited amount per day, like a normal Warlock can Eldritch Blast an unlimited amount per day. Or a psychic Warlock-type class that has continuous telekinesis. Stuff like that.

 

[Graf]

A truenamer with interesting abilities.
An improved shadowcaster (ala what the Mouse has been up to)

Runes could be fun. Though I struggle to think of some mechanic that hasn't been used yet...

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

I'd like to see...

Defiling/Preserving: on a continuum, not separate classes.
Lifeshaping: Flash grafting, forced mutations, etc.

 

[Aaron L]

Expanded and fleshed out Ritual Magic rules, like from Unearthed Arcana, where anyone with the spell in front of them can cast the spell with a long enough ceremony.

Giles: "Xander, don't speak Latin in front of the books."


Summoning magic, entirely based on summoning and binding demons and devils to the casters will (as the Karands in the Belgariad.)


Technomancy.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Or declare that the wizard can learn divine spells. But, reason why I said making a new core class with tis in mind is because I think it'll really shift the way magic works in D&D. I think there's some good reason (other than "sacred cows") why there's still the divine magic/arcane magic split.

The Sha'ir from Al-Qadim could have his gen familiar fetch divine spells as well as arcane spells. They didn't have spellbook or anything, their familiar disappeared into the planes and got whatever spell they wanted, taking various amounts of time depending on the specific spell wanted.
The Dragon update kinda shafted this idea, making any divine spell take hours to fetch, and then only divine spells from the Fire, Water, Earth, Air, Sun, Chaos, and Law domains. In 2e they could get any spell they wanted.