If a Warlord class existed, what two saves would you give it, and why?

[Cap'n Kobold]

Interesting. Are people basing their save suggestions simply on which ability scores they think would be highest for the class, or upon what the saves themselves represent?

 

[Tony Vargas]

Interesting. Are people basing their save suggestions simply on which ability scores they think would be highest for the class, or upon what the saves themselves represent?

The pattern in the PH seems to suggest the traditional 'prime requisite' (which, yes, likely to be highest) + one other that may or may not make huge amounts of sense.

What the less-common saves represent gets pretty trivial. INT saves help you see through illusions, but, conceptually, they might let you see through mundane tricks and enemy tactics, as well (assuming the game made any effort to model those things, which, of course, were there a Warlord, it'd be doing). CON saves seem to mostly be vs poison rather than exhaustion or privation, but those'd be the point in this case, I think.



Ultimately, though, I think the way 5e does saves is not great. All saves should scale with proficiency - a class might get a modest bonus with a save or two, or not, but all saves should scale. All save DCs scale, with both proficiency and the caster's/monster's best stat, or if they're arbitrary, with proximate level at about that rate.

 

[FrogReaver]

I would give him strength and wisdom. Str because he's a primary str martial character and that's what they tend to get. Wisdom because he has to be mentally strong to help his team especially when things are at their worst.

 

[Jester David]

I see the warlord as the "smart nonmagical fighter". So Intelligence for sure. Strength would be a good one, but I can also see Dexy warlords. So instead Constitution might be nice.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The format is one commonly used save and one less commonly used save, so you would either have to go for Int (uc) and Wis (c) or Wis (c) and Cha (uc). Int and Cha would be weak. Physical saves don't suit the concept.

Str = the character is hard to knock down
Dex = the character is good at jumping out of the way
Con = the character never catches a cold
Int = the character is hard to fool
Wis = the character has a strong will
Cha = the character has an overinflated ego

 

[Zardnaar]

The pattern in the PH seems to suggest the traditional 'prime requisite' (which, yes, likely to be highest) + one other that may or may not make huge amounts of sense.

What the less-common saves represent gets pretty trivial. INT saves help you see through illusions, but, conceptually, they might let you see through mundane tricks and enemy tactics, as well (assuming the game made any effort to model those things, which, of course, were there a Warlord, it'd be doing). CON saves seem to mostly be vs poison rather than exhaustion or privation, but those'd be the point in this case, I think.



Ultimately, though, I think the way 5e does saves is not great. All saves should scale with proficiency - a class might get a modest bonus with a save or two, or not, but all saves should scale. All save DCs scale, with both proficiency and the caster's/monster's best stat, or if they're arbitrary, with proximate level at about that rate.

Its one thing I do not like about 5E either is the saving throw scaling, gonna see if Pathfinder 2 does a better job. I prefer fort/ref/will (3 saves are better than 6) and the way 4E scaled it or OSR scales it is the better idea IMHO.

If they had proficiency bonus scaling to all saves and then each class could get a bonus or advantage on the good saves I think that is a better way. I prefer a +2 to +4 variance between a good and bad save, 5E can have +11 or +12 variance in a good and bad save. Having good saves also future proofs your game in case they make a stupid spell with a saving throw on it. Bad saves effect NPCs more though as they do not have access to resilient for example or Paladins.

Intelligence saves are also very rare and charisma saves a bit less so but NPCs do have bane and banishment on spell lists in the MM. Flunking a strength save is inconvenient (usually grappled or prone), intelligence saves don't matter for the most part, and charisma saves are a bit more rare but are important to make.

Con saves are the best one as you have magic effect, poison and concentration tied to it and its MVP for spellcasters. Then its wisdom saves then dex saves as dex saves are just more damage and 5E has plentiful healing and the dex save damage is generally low except for 4th and 5th level PCs vs fireball/lightning bolt and some dragon breath weapons.
Out of the bad saves strength is fairly common so its one of the best ones while charisma saves are also on very good classes like Bard and Paladins. Sorcerers are the only spellcaster that gets con saves while strength and con is a nice save combo only really rivalled by the Sorcerers con+charisma.

wisdom/strength would also be a nice combo to have. Con saves are a lot more common as wisdom is mostly spells and supernatural effects while con saves are that, poison and concentration. Hell sometimes its worth MCing just to get better saves, a fighter into Rogue is better than pure Rogue IMHO as you get better saves and dex to damage with your off hand which every rogue should be doing with a few exceptions. Similar idea with the Sorlock start as sorcerer and MC into warlock.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Interesting. Are people basing their save suggestions simply on which ability scores they think would be highest for the class, or upon what the saves themselves represent?

I think some people are definitely conflating the two. Cha saves aren't how well you command people, they are, well resisting being banished and things like that. I always have a difficult time summing it up.

I chose Int, and Wis. The ability to resist being dominated by a Mindflayer with the strength of a tactical mind, and the ability to resist losing control of oneself due to charm, fear, etc.

 

[Tony Vargas]

OK, this is a Warlord thread and I find myself in agreement with Zard & Jester Canuck.

The Apocalypse keeps getting colser.

 

[FrogReaver]

I don't understand how INT gets more votes than CHA.

 

[FrogReaver]

I see the warlord as the "smart nonmagical fighter". So Intelligence for sure. Strength would be a good one, but I can also see Dexy warlords. So instead Constitution might be nice.

Can't you see Charismatic instead of Intelligent Warlord's just as easily?