If Harm is broken, what's the best house rule for it?

[James McMurray]

Does that dragon or big nasty even get an AoO? Sorry if I am being dense on this one.

The AoO would be during the approach through reach, not because of the touch attack. As Anubis states, a dragon usually cnnot kill a cleric with a single attack, however, he can easily grab him with his mouth, then fly away and breath next round. That's also assuming he hasn't already used his AoO. A smart party could lure an AoO out of the dragon with their wizard. If he moves in to touch the dragon with an Otto's Irresistable Dance (or other devestating touch spell), the dragon will almost have to AoO to survive that as well.

Of course, that just means that dragons may have a defense against harm, there are tons of creatures who are not as well prepared to automatically grapple a cleric who charges them.

 

[Anubis]

I'm getting pretty tired of repeating this, but I'll try one last time:

Please do not level insults at people who don't agree with you.

Please don't use profanity. Yeah, even profanity with asterisks in it.

These rules aren't that hard to remember, and they're close to the only rules we have. I'd appreciate it if you kept them in mind. If this is somehow a problem, feel free to email me.

There's no problem, I just get a little frustrated with people is all. I have offered substantial proof to my argument, enough to make Harm being broken at least a fact (even if my solution isn't absolutely the best, Harm is still broken), it's not small potatoes.

I just get frustrated when people can't see things that are put right in front of them, and I also get frustrated who can't just admit thwne they're wrong, like the people who say Harm is fine as is.

I have a short temper, honestly. It would be one thing if I was only giving opinions, but since I'm offering real proof and fact to support my statements, I feel extremely irritated with people who still try to say I'm wrong even once I've been proven right.

 

[James McMurray]

If you go through life getting mad at people who refuse to believe in logic, then you're going to have a pretty frustrating life. Not all people agree that logic is the best method of argument, and not all people feel that logic alon is enough to proove a point. That's just the way of the world.

 

[Anubis]

If you go through life getting mad at people who refuse to believe in logic, then you're going to have a pretty frustrating life. Not all people agree that logic is the best method of argument, and not all people feel that logic alon is enough to proove a point. That's just the way of the world.

I know that, but it's still frustrating. I guess that's the problem with free will. Tell them that the world is a globe, and they can stil argue that the Earth is flat as much as they like, no matter how much proof there is to the contrary.

I can't help myself getting mad. I dunno, I just get frustrated easily. I guess I have this fantasy that in the end, everyone listens to reason. The MIddle East itself proves that wrong, yet my fantasy persists. I'm a victim of the logic loop.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

If Heal is too powerful when used by dragons, give it an hp cap that the PC are likely never to reach. Healing 250 hp sounds fine to me. Very few PCs have that kind of hp.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

I know that, but it's still frustrating.

Heh, I am convinced a large percentage of arguments exist because people are not interested in seeing another point-of-view, but just want to run around the mulberry of their argument over and over.

I would imagine some people are equally frustrated you don't see their "arguments".

Your best bet is to learn to enjoy the pain of biting your tongue- sometimes keeping the peace here is better then blowing your top.

I got the scars on my tongue to know.

FD

 

[Furn_Darkside]

If Heal is too powerful when used by dragons, give it an hp cap that the PC are likely never to reach. Healing 250 hp sounds fine to me. Very few PCs have that kind of hp.

Heh, or turn the casting time to a minute. That guaruntees it will not be cast in battles. Not that I have ever seen a problem with the spell...

FD

 

[Marshall]

I'm thinking, give it the Will save for 6d8+lvl and change the damage to reduce the target to 0 HP.

That makes it a real save-or-die spell, but maintains the feel.

 

[jgbrowning]

well

I can't help myself getting mad. I dunno, I just get frustrated easily. I guess I have this fantasy that in the end, everyone listens to reason. The MIddle East itself proves that wrong, yet my fantasy persists. I'm a victim of the logic loop.

i've found it tends to come down on whose definition of reason that your using. mine or yours


joe b.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Dragons, vampires, high-level adventurers, etc. all have innumerable ways to kill you while you attempt to close in and touch the beastie that you wish to Harm.

Using a touch attack does not, in itself, draw an AoO, unless your opponent has reach. I could Harm a high level fighter, and unless he has a Potion of Displacement there is nothing he can do about it.

Not every high level creature can defend against Harm. Not every high level creature is even that intelligent; take a look at the Elder Elementals. They have Intelligence 6. There is nothing an earth elemental could do to you, save use an AoO (which does damage, but is nowhere near as nasty as Harm).

Finally, Harm is not all that unbalanced for one reason. If YOU can zap me, then I can zap you.


Not every opponent can cast Harm; usually only divine spellcasters (and a few PrCs) have access to it.

Does that dragon or big nasty even get an AoO?

Yup, but where's your hand? If you're grappled, you can use a weapon two sizes smaller than you, including your hand. Furthermore, a single attack from a dragon won't kill you; this is why dragons often use Haste.

Heh, or turn the casting time to a minute. That guaruntees it will not be cast in battles. Not that I have ever seen a problem with the spell...


Good idea. If you've seen the beginning of PirateCat's campaign, however, you'll see why PCs sometimes need to cast Mass Heal as a standard action