If Harm is broken, what's the best house rule for it?

[James McMurray]

First: periapt of health and endurance do not stack. Second: maximize does not automatically increase the empowered portions of the spell. Third: the question wasn't about barbarians getting lots of hit points, it was about rogues and clerics.

 

[Kraedin]

First: I accounted for that. Endurance is giving a +19 bonus, in actuality, but obvously that doesn't stack with the periapt.
Second: I'm not calculating it as such. It's 5 (maximized portion) + (2.5+1) (normally rolled, per empowerment rules) * (.5 * 8 ) (multiple empowerment.)
Third: A +19 bonus to con gives a rogue with a base 12 con 272.5 hitpoints, so endurance works just fine for rogues and clerics.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

About the 250 hitpoint thing: it's not that hard.

20th level dwarf barbarian starting with 20 con.

You started with 20 Con? Did the DM see the dice roll 18, since the chance of that happening is about 3%? Did you use really high point buy?

+5 con for level advancement.

That's perfectly possible, but your attack bonus will suffer.

+5 con from tome of bodily health +5.

You happened to find one?

+6 con from periapt of health.

Sure.

+6 con from barbarian rage.

Sure, although that's a temporary buff.

That's a con of 42, for a +16 hp per level.

Throw in an Incantatrix casting a 8x empowered maximized endurance (using a lesser rod of empowerment and a lesser rod of maximization) throws another 13 con on the top, for 515.5 hitpoints.


Those rods are expensive and very hard to find, and I'm not even sure you can use more than one at a time, the incantrix is not balanced (IMO, YMMV, of course), and, as has already been pointed out, Endurance doesn't stack with Bracers of Health.

 

[Kraedin]

What part of "extreme example" isn't clear?

Lesser metamagic rods are hardly expensive for 20th level characters. 16,200 for the empowerment, 27,200 for the maximize, versus the 760,000 gp expected of a 20th level character.

You're right about the feat rods, though, only one at a time. Reduce the endurance bonus by 2.5.

 

[Thanee]

Ok, we all know that even a 20th level wizard CAN have 250 hit points. The question was more about regular chars, not uber CON monsters! Altho, it might be, that in Anubis' games everyone likes to max out CON, who am I to know. *shrug* I (and I suppose others as well) was just curious how he got the figure of 250+ hps for everyone except wizards in all his games.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Anubis]

In my games, Constitution usually gets the second highest score, except for Clerics, Monks, and Paladins, where it's usually the third highest.

Also, my players invest in items that enhance Constitution as early as possible to give the most hit points.

Especially for Wizards, this is QUITE in-character, considering how smart they're supposed to be.

A common Level 20 Wizard could get about 3 hit points per die, have a 14 Constitution, +6 enhancement, and also get a Tome of Bodily Health.

This is 150 MINIMUM for most people who roll better than crap. There are usually more items involved, such as a Vest of False Life, and Toughness. (I have House Ruled Toughness a bit, but not enough to really add too many hit points.)

Anyway, Fighters usually have over 300 at this point.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Anyway, Fighters usually have over 300 at this point.

Con 28 and above-average rolls?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Could you go into a little more detail, Anubis?

Don't get me wrong. I agree that Harm should be errata'd, house ruled, or nerfed. I'm somewhat confused about how you get such high Con scores. With dice rolling, 4d6, don't drop the lowest or 1s, the average stat is 13.

 

[maddman75]

I haven't read through this entire thread, just thought I'd run mine past you guys.

<full metal jacket>
THIS IS MY HOUSE RULE FOR HARM. THERE ARE MANY LIKE IT, BUT THIS ONE IS MINE
</full metal jacket>

Fort save applies. Those who succeed takes 6d8+level in damage, minimum of 4 hit points.

This keeps it in line with the inflict spells. I *know* that it isn't part of the cure chain, but it has a symmetry that I like. Plus it places it in power cleanly between SLay Living and Destruction.

 

[Shalewind]

My apologies. I had no intention of highjacking the thread.

Thank you Anubis for answering my question though.

Back on to the harm discussion.