If item creation didn't use Xp, what should it use?

[FireLance]

1) Just make it gold. If you do that, wouldn't the items be significantly cheaper than the market price? Even at 5 gp to xp exchange, that's 50% of the price + 20% of the price = only 70% market price. If you make the exchange equal, then doesn't that mean many players would just make all of the stuff they want exactly like they want it, instead of finding it through treasure? Or...is that the "benefit" of getting the feat in this case.

Yes, that is the benefit of the feat - reducing the cost of obtaining items. "Getting exactly the item you want" is not an issue in my campaigns, since the PCs have a great deal of freedom in customizing their equipment. I don't even give out treasure (apart from useful items found during the course of the adventure); the PCs simply upgrade their equipment whenever they level, up to the standard wealth level of their new level.

 

[Slife]

The lifeblood of a hundred innocents. But only for evil wizards.

 

[mearls]

A lot of people don't like the consume xp for spells or item creation for a number of reasons.

Let's say that WOTC decided to do away with the whole xp thing and find a "better" way. What way would that be?

Here's my off the top of my head, haven't even read the rest of the thread answer:

Permanent items use up a spell slot. Until you gain another level, you lose access to a spell slot determined by the item's power.

Example: A +1 mace costs 1,000 gp and a 2nd level slot. You regain the use of the slot when you gain a level.

The idea is that if the PCs need an item *now*, they pay a price. Otherwise, the party just waits until they're close to leveling up, or as part of leveling up, to make items. That takes time away from the table anyway, so just let the PC make the item as part of the math and decisions he makes when creating items. Part of the rules would dictate that a PC can hold off on gaining a level until he chooses to level up, letting a caster make items then gain a level.

Single use items (potions, scrolls) don't follow this rule. They just cost cash.

 

[Nightfall]

Hit points, ability scores, uhm...what else can a PC give away...?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Exotic Components can be a bad idea unless WotC also *drastically* diminishes the magic items in the game. Frankly, if my wizard had to spend a night of gaming going on some fido hunt for a scroll of magic missile instead of fighting the big-bad, he's just wasted EVERYONE's time.

They're a good idea for big items -- intelligent items, "capstone" items, high-level magic items (relative to the party), items that are going to make a real difference to the whole party. For consumable items...potions of CLW, scrolls, even wands and most staves....they'd be really pointless.

So unless WotC decides to deal away with potions, scrolls, wands, and staves, I think the rescource needs to be something more immediately....expendible.

I use the Craft Points system from Unearthed Arcana (for more than just magic items -- for forging swords and the like as well). The idea is that taking magic item creation feats gives you more CP to use, and you can always take a feat to just give you a splurge of CP.

Exotic components are only worth the time and effort when their result is something like a Legacy Item or something equally impressive. For Ye Olde +1 Sworde, they're a lot of hoopla over something fairly minor.

 

[Aeric]

If item creation didn't use Xp, what should it use?

A technique known to a powerful ancient Precursor race, lost to the sands of time. In other words, the PCs can't do it.

That way, finding a magic item is a big deal again.

 

[Li Shenron]

You could replace the XP cost with an extra GP cost equal to the current GP cost, which means that it would cost just as much to create than it costs to buy the item.

Removing the XP cost means that there can be wizards in the world which create items without having to go around looking for something to kill now and then.

It still makes sense to create your own items instead of buying UNLESS the campaign is setup so that it's trivial to find magic items on sale. If the DM allows anything to be bought on the shop round the corner, then it makes no sense anymore to create your own item (but in such a campaign, even the normal crafting rules are very inconvenient).

 

[Treebore]

I like the idea of "life force" being invested in magic items, but only powerful ones. So I didn't require xp to be paid until the item value exceeded 15,000 GP.

I also considered the idea of temporary HP damage, that could only be healed by the Heal spell or something equivelant (this is because I consider "soul damage", something beyond the power of lesser healing spells). Otherwise they had to spend the time healing naturally, as spelled out in the book for the heal skill. To make the xp cost numbers workable I was figuring on a 10xp=1 HP of damage. That way, the super powerful items would require the wizard to acquire a heal spell (or two) in order to be able to finish making real powerful items.

But I never got to try it out before I switched to using Castles and Crusades. But I used the 15,000 GP rule for several years and I never had a player make me want to change it back.

 

[Starglim]

Special ingredients. In theory, I like this one a lot. However, how would you implement on a mass scale that could work by the book and not per campaign. People moan and groan about every spell having a material component, but that's exactly what your adding in here, a special ingredient for every magic item. That's a lot of special ingredients.

The way that I was thinking to systematise it:

Magic items currently cost XP. Killing or otherwise overcoming monsters gains you XP.

So take the XP cost and translate that, for a caster of the minimum level to make the item, to a CR of monster that that character would have to defeat to gain that much XP, or equivalently an average CR of encounters in terrain that he must cross. The DM then chooses the challenges within the CR guideline and announces the ingredient required, to his taste and campaign specificities.

Since fighting the monsters is not part of a heroic quest, perhaps the mage gains no XP for them. This comes to much the same thing as the current system, but with more adventuring and less arbitrary crossing-off of character resources.

I expect you would want to pre-calculate this into a series of tables at existing logical breaks for each type of item, such as per spell level of scrolls or per + of magic weapons.

Example: To scribe a scroll of a 3rd-level spell, a 5th level character must obtain 15xp. If a standard party of four 5th-level characters defeated a CR 1 creature they would each gain 5 times the required XP to scribe the scroll. (Why are people complaining about XP costs, again?) Thus, the ingredients for a 3rd-level scroll should require defeat of a CR 1 creature of the DM's choice, which will provide enough materials to scribe 5 such scrolls. I suggest CR 1 as a minimum since less powerful creatures are just not impressive enough to be useful sources of magical energies.

To scribe a scroll of a 9th-level spell, a 17th level character must obtain 153xp. A standard party of four 17th level characters will each gain enough XP to cover this if they defeat a CR 11 creature.

 

[hong]

A lot of people don't like the consume xp for spells or item creation for a number of reasons.

Let's say that WOTC decided to do away with the whole xp thing and find a "better" way. What way would that be?

Body parts.


Hong "aha, a new way to qualify for eunuch warlock!" Ooi