If our Hobby has a problem, it is the difficulty of interpersonal communcation.

[Edena_of_Neith]

The difficulty AD&D and D&D have always had is that they require successful freeform interpersonal communication to be workable.
That is, they require what we see on this messageboard: people talking to each other and finding consensus, without using ritual phraselogy (ritual phrases are common: good morning, how are you?, the weather is nice today, that will be $20.15 please, thank you for shopping here, etc.)
As we all know, it isn't easy to do. It requires effort, compromise, and social skills, and a lot of other things. And all manner of things interfere: people may be sick, or in a bad mood, or dealing with family tragedy or strife, work troubles or unemployment, or a host of other real life problems. Or they may just be sleepy or tired.
I think all of this is a given. A truism.

Well, look at Magic the Gathering.
That game, along with all card games, requires far, far less freeform interpersonal communication to work. (It could be argued that it requires no freeform interpersonal communication to work ...)
Ditto for the other CCGs.

What about computer games? Same thing. Computers don't communicate per se. They may be a royal pain in the butt, and they may not function at all, but they do not require freeform interpersonal communication.
Ditto video games. All home video games used to be like computers and one time arcade games.
Now we have the new multi-user video games. But even they follow strict computer laid down rules: it seems to me that they, too, require less freeform interpersonal communication.

How about, say, tactical and strategic games? Well, these are the games AD&D and D&D rose out of. They are just what they are. Sometimes they require little communication. Sometimes (as in Star Fleet Battles) they require a lot (due to rules arguments.)
But AD&D, D&D, and other roleplaying games still require far more.

What about, then, the games of White Wolf? Vampire? Mage? Werewolf? And all the LARPs?
What about Warhammer?
Well, of course they require intensive freeform interpersonal communication. Any RPG does.

- - -

When D&D first came out, it did not have to compete with computer games (computers as we know them did not exist), or video games (ditto), or internet games (ditto), or collectable card games (ditto), or other roleplaying games. Not to mention 500 channels of cable TV.
But now all these other competitors do exist.

The costs of paper has skyrocketed. It has outpaced inflation. Meanwhile, real wages have dropped.
Students in their teens are in a very competitive environment as jobs go overseas and wages fall. There is less and less time for anything but study. College tuitions are much higher in real terms than they were back in the 70s, and competition to get into college fierce. And certainly competition in college is fiercer than ever.
I would hardly call this a friendly environment for role-playing games, which are time intensive by default, in a world where time - always a precious commodity - has become all the more so.

-

If the players of an RPG argue or disagree, this wastes time. Time is precious: there is no time to waste. But it is wasted anyways. The young increasingly have no time: why should they waste what time they have on arguments or squabbles over rules?
If the players of an RPG argue or disagree, this wastes effort. Energy is increasingly precious, in a world where teenagers must go to school and hold a job both, and somehow find time for homework and sleep in-between. What energy remains for fun must be rationed: why waste it on arguments?

And unfortunately, freeform interpersonal communication requires both time and effort, by it's very nature, even if everyone gets along and the game flows as smoothly as glass.
So I see the young refusing to put forth that effort. They go and do what takes less effort (if not necessarily less time) and play CCGs or computer games or watch one of those 500 channels of cable TV.

Not everyone is an expert at freeform interpersonal communication! It is not an insult, to not be the best communicator in the world!
It takes practice and time to learn to be good at communication. It takes a willingness to compromise and adapt ... and some people are just plain unwilling, or stubborn, or are very opinionated.
And there are some subjects that are very difficult to discuss peaceably in freeform interpersonal communication, which is why the Pony Express banned discussion of religion and politics on their routes for passengers, and why ENWorld does the same thing.
To be frank, many Gamers hold very fierce opinions about how the game should be, or how it should be played. This is not religion or politics, but it does represent an obstacle to freeform interpersonal communication.
And there is such a thing as Group Politics. Anytime you have 2 people present, you have Group Politics. Group Politics throws a monkey wrench into freeform interpersonal communication, making it all the harder yet to conduct and enjoy.

Finally, and foremost, AD&D and D&D require a DM. This person must be very highly skilled in freeform interpersonal communication, must be very effective in Group Politics, must know the game very well, must have spent a great deal of time and effort preparing the adventure, and must have more time and energy in general.
Not that the DM is always appreciated for these extra requirements by the players: the DM is usually very badly underappreciated, and when the DM realizes this it makes it ever so much harder to run a game.
And of course, not all DMs have the requisite skills in the first place, which makes it harder for the players and thus the DM alike.

-

In short, what is the Magical Something needed to aid the roleplaying Hobby?
That Magical Something is anything that would make freeform interpersonal communication easier for players and DM alike.
What would enable such a thing? I don't know. I don't have the answers.

Edena_of_Neith

 

[Chainsaw Mage]

Although I had to giggle when you used the term "ritual phraseology" (is there no end to academic pomposity?) you *do* make some very good points, although you could have probably made them in about half the words. But verbosity is not a sin.

It seems to me that just by their very nature, RPGs will *never* be more popular than they are right now. They will *always* be a niche, a tiny subculture, a whatever-other-term-you-want-to-use.

The reason comes down to intelligence, personality, and work ethic. Most people are not intelligent enough, personable enough, or willing to commit the work needed to make an RPG an enjoyable experience. RPGs will *always* require these three traits to work well. Most people will *always* lack these traits.

Asking, "How can we make RPGs more mainstream?" is like asking, "How can we make the study of quantum physics more mainstream?" or "How can we make political debate about the merits of agrarian socialism more mainstream?"

Such things will never be mainstream. They are simply beyond the reach of the common man.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I find it ironic that we're supposed to be playing D&D right now, but I'm on ENWorld reading your post while my players play Magic: the Gathering.

 

[Umbran]

I agree with Chainsaw's conclusion, but not at all with the reasoning.

I don't think it is a matter of being "beyond" the common man. It isn't that the common man doesn't have the ability, he just doesn't care for it. And that's okay.

You're right, Edena, that freeform communication is required (which is why PbP and online rpgs are somewhat awkward, the channels of communication are somewhat restricted).

I think, though, that you might be barking up the wrong tree as for a solution. Rather than try to come up with a novel and highly effective aid to communication (a daunting prospect), perhaps it'd be better to merely change the "value proposition" (a mere difference in marketing).

You point out that time is precious, because people are all in competition. Now, I don't know when the last time you were on a college campus, but most of those kids are not locked into hefty competition, and they have plenty of time on their hands to play. But you are right in that most folks, given their druthers, will gravitate to activities that either are easier, or seem easier, or for which they see some other benefit.

Sports are a good example, here. It takes a whole lot of physical effort to play a full game of soccer, or the like. But those who do so for enjoyment either don't think of it as "work", or they see great value to their health in the exercise.

So, we need to either change the perception of the "work" involved in D&D, or make the exercise seem like a benefit.

 

[tonym]

ritual phraselogy

Nifty phrase. In one of my classes at college, it was called phatic communion.

Regarding your post...in a general sense, I agree.

To answer your final question, about how to make communication easier between a DM and her players: Consider drinking a little beer or wine before or during the game. Alcohol has been determined to cause people to relax and communicate more easily.

Other than that, I've got nuthin.

Tony M

 

[William Ronald]

I agree with Chainsaw's conclusion, but not at all with the reasoning.

I don't think it is a matter of being "beyond" the common man. It isn't that the common man doesn't have the ability, he just doesn't care for it. And that's okay.

You're right, Edena, that freeform communication is required (which is why PbP and online rpgs are somewhat awkward, the channels of communication are somewhat restricted).

I think, though, that you might be barking up the wrong tree as for a solution. Rather than try to come up with a novel and highly effective aid to communication (a daunting prospect), perhaps it'd be better to merely change the "value proposition" (a mere difference in marketing).

You point out that time is precious, because people are all in competition. Now, I don't know when the last time you were on a college campus, but most of those kids are not locked into hefty competition, and they have plenty of time on their hands to play. But you are right in that most folks, given their druthers, will gravitate to activities that either are easier, or seem easier, or for which they see some other benefit.

Sports are a good example, here. It takes a whole lot of physical effort to play a full game of soccer, or the like. But those who do so for enjoyment either don't think of it as "work", or they see great value to their health in the exercise.

So, we need to either change the perception of the "work" involved in D&D, or make the exercise seem like a benefit.

Hello, Edena!! This is a good idea for a thread as it seems that many of the problems that people complain about in games boil down to communication issues.

I tend to agree with Umbran in that what is needed is not so much a novel innovation as a paradigm shift. Sometimes, people view RPGs as more work than they are.

I think there are many good qualities that RPGs have: a chance to use the imagination, the use of strategy, teamwork, and an opportunity to have fun. Part of the problem of attracting people to RPGs as hobby is that it is not as visible as sports or bird watching.

Mind you, I think there are opportunities to increase the number of gamers. A large part of the reason why many people don't play RPGs is that they have little idea of what they are about as opposed to many other activities. They also require a somewhat higher level of energy and participation than spectator sports or watching television.

I think that there are ways to improve the profile of gaming, such as advertising and in the use of such support products as books and movies. However, gaming may possibly remain a niche hobby.

One thing that gives me cause for hope is that role-playing is now being used in the classroom as a teaching tool. This may make the idea of role-playing games a little easier for young people.

As for communication, I think that one thing that might help is if people try to communicate with each other in a respectful manner. There is always talking around gaming tables, in and out of characters. I think that clearly defined rules can help end some arguments about games.

Another thing that can help a game go well is if the DM and the players have similar desires as to what they want out of a game. Not all playing styles work well together, and a gaming group is more than just a colleciton of individuals. I have seen some gaming groups work very well together. Often, I think this is because of shared goals and strong communication skills.

Perhaps one thing a GM can do to encourage good communication is to try to ensure that each player has a chance to speak in a group. This can help increase a player's sense that his or her actions are important. Also, we can try to treat differing opinions with respect.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I would like to respond to the posts above.

Phraseology is a word I heard in Music Man. I doubt it is an actual word in the Dictionary. I used it for convenience, and was trying to be a little humorous too.
I am overly verbose. That is the difference between me and a good writer: a good writer can say profound and varied things with a few words, and I cannot.

Perhaps RPGs will never be more popular than they are now. Perhaps they will only be a niche. I hope this is not what will happen. But it may happen. It will be very sad to me, if it happens that way. It is depressing, to me, to think of our Hobby as permanently a niche affair.
I agree that RPGs require that effort be put into them, for there to be fun. The game does not play itself: the players must play it. And I agree that personality is a big factor - but that subject, the personality factor, is so complicated I could not hope to deal with it. An expert in human psychology I am not. I mean ... my history of gaming goes like a computer software program ... you throw people together, get a DM, and hope it works. In my case, sometimes it worked great ... and sometimes it crashed as badly as any software could (I mean, as in taking the very computer itself out with it!)
There was one roleplaying game I could compare with Quantom Mechanics. That was Rolemaster. I am proud to have actually run two rolemaster games ... even if they did leave me flat on my back for a week afterwards (not from the mental strain, but from my hands falling off from flipping through rulebooks at the speed of light, for 6 hours straight.)

I wish to make an additional comment here, though: for some reason, teenagers seem to have the knack of freeform interpersonal communication down better ... in roleplaying games.
Don't ask me why, for I do not know. Everything would tend to indicate that teenagers are the last people with high freeform interpersonal communication skills, yet they seem to do the best at RPGs. At least, in my own history, that is my experience.
This enigma, I leave to others to decipher. Before all the adults on this board jump on me, I am merely citing my own personal experiences, and they may not be your experiences. And I will be the first person to say that it doesn't make sense, especially given the temperament and rebellious nature of teenagers.

-

Why not strenuously advertise the game? And advertise it as a relaxing way to have some fun? Advertise it as simple, laid back, good natured, and a pleasant way to expend time and energy?
Unfortunately, I'm guessing many of you might say that our Hobby is not a simple, laid back, good natured, pleasant way to expend time and energy. Some of you might say the whole atmosphere of the Hobby is poisoned.
I've heard some of you say just that. I've heard it said in many ways, some not overt or obvious:

I am the DM, and thou shalt do as I say! Well, we are the players, and we'll find a new DM! (Not very laid back)
Those rules stink. These rules are the only good rules. Your character is a munchkin. That campaign world stinks. (Not very good natured.)
That player is a DM's pet. That player is an attention hog. That player is a bully. That player smells. That player plays that OTHER game: ick! (Not very pleasant.)
You spent $40 on books, yes, but you can't use them. The DM spent two weeks prepping his campaign, but the players refuse to cooperate and they wrecked everything. (Not a good use of time and energy.)

(to use Monopoly as an analogy) Any DM allowing someone to put a house on Boardwalk is a lousy DM. Any player doing so is a munchkin. Anyone using the DO NOT PASS GO rule is using the wrong edition. Did you know the new rules for putting homes on the railroads? (I insist on version 3.0 of the railroad rules! I insist on version 3.5 of the railroad rules! Well, I insist on version 2.0 of the railroad rules. Well, all of you are wrong: the 1.0 version was the only way to go.)
Can you imagine a group of people sitting down to play Monopoly with this situation at hand? I doubt the game would get played. I think they might have a hard time even getting the game started.
When the disagreements I cited above become personal, and the insults start flying (and the insults do start flying), then the atmosphere has become poisoned.
And who will want to sit down and play a Monopoly game where nobody can agree on the rules, everyone is arguing, and insults are flying?
Better to sit and play that computer game or watch that cable show ... they are freer of the arguing, the insults, and the fear and anger and stress that is caused by the same ...

Well ok, perhaps our Hobby is not as laid back, pleasant, easy going, and hunky dory as we would like it. People ARE people, after all, and they will quarrel - be they teens or the elderly or anything in between.
But we can do our best to make our Hobby as laid back, pleasant, easy going, and attractive to newcomers and old-timers alike, no?
And we can advertise it as such.
Because our Hobby MUST COMPETE AGAINST numerous entertainment mediums that ARE laid back, pleasant, easy going, and attractive to new comers. If we cannot compete, how can we stay in business?

Ok, you can let me have it now ...

-

Umbran, can you describe value proposition better? I don't understand what you mean by the phraseology (hehe, there's Music Man again!)
When I was a teenager, my teachers constantly beat into me and my colleagues the utter importance of study and hard work. When they were not doing so, our parents were. The alternative to hard work and achievement was constantly pointed out: menial labor, low wages, low benefits, and outright starvation. Every horror they had themselves experienced, and every horror they could imagine, they threw at us, held over us as the consequences of not diligently studying, not working hard.
Frankly, it was terrifying. And it became more and more terrifying as we grew to realize they were quite right about the matter.
We gamed anyways, of course. And in the end gaming was not a significant factor in our success or lack of success later on. The detractors of our Hobby would say otherwise, of course, but my opinion is that gaming had no influence on 'Winning' or 'Losing' in life.
What I WILL say with conviction is that: the game and the fun was over all too soon, for all of else. Much like weekends or holidays are over all too soon. And choretime is quick to return, and return it does, with a vengeance.

I think that most of our DMs would have agreed with you, that DMing was a 'fun' kind of work. A few would have disagreed (especially when they were sleepy, and players wanted their services anyways!)
As for the players, they almost always thought of the playing part as fun. That's a given.

How to make the game seem 'fun' to newcomers and regulars alike?
I don't know. Because I don't know how to overcome the current poisoned atmosphere that permeates our Hobby. I see the young and newcomers discouraged, dissed, and turned away from games - I've seen this happen personally.
When young newcomers actually sit to play, rules are thrown at them, then errata, then counterrules, then counter-errata, then everyone argues over which rules will be used, then arguments break out over interpretation of individual rules everyone had previously agreed upon, then personal dislikes and animosities break out, and people bring Real Life problems into the game, and Group Politics raises it's ugly head, and the newcomer may or may not be good with his communication skills, and the players at the table may or may not be able to communicate effectively, and may or may not WANT to communicate effectively, and ... well, at that point, the 16 year old is fleeing for his life from the Gaming Table.
This is especially true if all the current gamers are older than the newcomer, and particularly true if they look down upon him as a youngling (which occurs.) Unfortunately, most of us who game currently are older, and it seems to me we intimidate the young with our age. I mean, it's not our fault. Aging is normal (hopefully!) But the young seem to prefer gaming with others of their own age ... and there aren't any D&Ders of their own age, hardly, to game with, it seems.

How to fix this?
I don't know. Many of the gamers I know do not want the young in their games at all, so it's a moot point.
As for the poisoned atmosphere, I don't have any answer to it. I am guessing most of those here on ENWorld will disagree on the matter of there even being a poisoned atmosphere: in their opinion, this is not the case. It is my opinion, but not theirs. I cannot debate how to correct a poisoned atmosphere, when (apparently) few acknowledge that such a situation even exists.

In my own defense, all I can do is point to that other thread where they are debating why the hobby is having problems (dying, to quote some of them.)
They seem to think there is a problem, and they are struggling with ways to fix what they see as problems.
I guess that means there are problems to be fixed?

Phatic communion?
I don't understand. Could you elaborate on that?
Alcohol terrifies me. I've seen what it does to women: it renders them devastatingly vulnerable to the bad behavior of men. My personal experience only, of course, and not necessarily the general rule, but there it is.
Alcohol removes the restraint people put on themselves. If people are inclined to argue or stubbornly and dramatically post an opinion, I'm guessing that alcohol will exacerbate this - and this, also, is my personal experience with alcohol drinkers.
I mean, it's fine to drink. I don't have a problem with that. I just don't drink myself.
But the idea of 5 or 6 men, argumentative and cocky to start with, getting inebriated and THEN starting in on a rules argument, is not a scene I wish to imagine. (I've seen fistfights over RISK games, when everyone was cold stone sober. That's more than enough for me.)
Imagine an evil party, where everyone thinks it's ok to knife the other characters in the back, then imagine everyone at that table drinking, and slowly getting more and more inebriated, even as they start killing each other's characters.
I would have to wonder, just how far the violence would go, in that case ... (the dentists of the world would love such situations, I'm guessing)

A LITTLE beer or wine is fine. But of course, what is a little beer or wine varies from person to person. And sometimes a little becomes a lot, in a hurry.

Ok, once more, everyone can jump on me now ...

I must seriously wonder how many people I've infuriated with this post so far. I'm guessing it's a LOT. And I'm sorry, because infuriating folk seems to be what I do best and communicating effectively what I do least well.
I'm not trying to dis anyone. I am not attempting to put anyone down - it might SEEM like that, but it isn't the case.

I'm merely giving personal opinions based on limited personal experience. Take it for what it is: just one person's flawed viewpoint, based on flawed and limited experiences.

-

To William: I don't know. And, I don't know. AND, I don't know.
If I had the Answer to things, I'd be a famous Gaming Designer. I'm not kidding. And a multimillionaire to boot. (Remember Tanis, from Dragonlance, and how he told Lord Amothus of Palanthus that if he had the answers, he'd have a wagonload of clerics following him around all the time, and hordes of people looking to him?)

I love the Hobby. I have had GREAT times in the Hobby. The Hobby is so special to me I keep a Historic Library of TSR and WOTC Products in memory of it (as you well know.)
ANYTHING that makes the Hobby prosper, is great to me. Anything that brings in new people, is great to me. Anything that makes the Hobby more appealing, is great to me. Doesn't matter what it is.
I mean, if they decided Krynnish Kender were the main race of the game, Santa Elves and Snow-White Dwarves were the alternate, the classes were were limited to ninja/clerics (of Eldath), ninja/cavalier/paladins, and ninja/dwarven battleragers, and all weapons had to be made of seaweed and grey ooze mixed (how you wield one, without being eaten, is your problem) that would be fine with me - so long as it made the Hobby grow, made the Hobby funner, and caused new people to join the Hobby.
That's my stance.
And, my stance is, that anything that is hurting the Hobby, is unfortunate and sad and a nuisance, and something should be done about it.

A paradigm shift? An attitude shift? Is that what you mean?
If yes, agreed?
But how? And that is the 50 million dollar question. I have no answer (and no 50 million dollars.)

Ok, I'm going to point out something, which is a personal experience, which will make even MORE PEOPLE MAD at me.
You know, aim gun, shoot foot? Open mouth, stick foot in? That kind of thing.

In my experience, the Hobby punishes creativity and imagination. It vigorously suppresses both.
This is partly due to that human failing we call jealousy. He thinks he's smart. He isn't so smart. He's just a show-off. (I've seen parties turn on creative thinking, even when it meant a Total Party Kill. I'm not joking or exaggerating. To the players, dissing and stopping the creativity, the imagination, was more important than the survival of their characters. Of course, if that player continued being creative and imaginative, he was not welcome anymore in the group.)
It is also, as the above should make obvious, a matter of Group Politics. That ugly subject in it's tortuous complexities I'll leave for another time: it is enough to say that Politics is ugly (they don't ban it here on ENWorld for no reason) and when it gets into the game, it squashes all else.
And, of course, there is the little fact that the DM often thinks of himself (or herself) as being in competition with the players. The players are the foe. The players must be outsmarted and outthought at every turn. The players must never think up a way to outsmart or outfox the DM: if that happens, then the players must be put in their place!

Also, creativity and imagination must have a framework of rules to use.
In a situation where the rules are constantly changing as the DM, players, and game designers change them, where do creativity and imagination take a stand?

I mean, consider Tom Bombadil, the result of the imagination of J.R.R. Tolkien.
But Tom Bombadil went by rules. His claimed land had boundaries. His routes along the Withywindle were at certain times of the year. His power was defined. The geography around him was a given. The dangers of the area were also a given.
So, Frodo and Company go into Old Forest, are forced into Withywindle Valley, are caught by Old Man Willow, saved by Tom Bombadil, stay at Tom Bombadil's house for two days, meet Goldberry, travel through the Barrow Downs, get caught by a Barrow Wight, are saved by Tom again, then escorted to the Great Road by Tom.
That's a given. And it's based on a concrete setting.

Now imagine that you have this setting, but it's not in a book. It's a game setting. And it, and all it's realities, are constantly being altered by game designers, DMs, and players.
Tom Bombadil can defeat Barrow Wights. No he can't! He can defeat them, but not Old Man Willow. He can't defeat anyone. Goldberry is a nymph. No, she's a dryad. No, she's a silkie. No, she's a siren. No, she's a harpy. Old Forest is huge. No, it's small. No, it's not there at all: there is a field there. No, it's an illusion, and actually a lake. Frodo and his Company have ponies. No, they don't. Ponies CAN walk up steep slopes. No, they can't. Well, they get a saving throw against Old Forest. No, they don't. Water will suffocate Frodo. No, hobbits are immune to suffocation. Yes, it is autumn. No, it is summer. I say it's spring. Well, I say there are no seasons in Middle Earth. Well * I * say it's winter, so it's WINTER. (but does it snow in wintertime? The climate is warm. No, it's cold. No, it's ...)

Now, imagine that someone picks up The Fellowship of the Ring, and for some reason Tolkien decided to write, then rewrite, then rewrite, then rewrite, the Tom Bombadil section until it took up the entire book (all 350 pages or so) and then another 350 pages for good measure, until the reader screamed aloud whenever the word Tom was ever mentioned again.

Not only is the newcomer to the Hobby faced with such a situation, but his imagination is faced with this hurdle. Add in Group Politics, DM Adversity, arguing players, ambigous situations (in which D&D is chockfull) in which neither the DM nor the players can figure out what the rules mean ... well, you get the picture.

Bird watching never had it so good. (That is a sparrow. No, that's a dove. No, that's a finch. No, that's a robin. I'm the DM, and I say it's a purple martin! Well, we say it's a blackbird. Well, the designer says it's a bluejay. Well, in the new edition, it's a ... )

Ok, once more everyone can unload on me here ...

I don't have any answers. Just a lot of questions, and questions about where to start questioning. Just call me Clueless, to use the Planescape expression.
I just hope the magic works for the game. It's worked since 1972. It can still work. There is no rule that says our Hobby has to die, or diminish. And hey, everything ever published for the Hobby is still out there - in a sense, the Hobby is bigger now than ever before in history. With each day, more material is released for it.

I salute the Hobby, and I salute those who make a living off of it (which isn't easy!), and those who try to enjoy it (which also isn't always easy!)
To all, I give my salutations. May the Hobby flourish.

WHAT? You mean you actually READ through this entire post, and soaked up all my drivel?! What are you, a masochist? You're a worthy candidate to be a Cleric of Loviatar, Our Lady of Pain, then!

Edena_of_Neith

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

(sighs)

Interpersonal communication can be hard. If I was better at it, I might just write reasonably sized posts, and not book sized posts.
But if you can somehow ignore or get past all the Fluff in my above post, I did have some Crunch in there (somewhere in there. It's there. Promise!)

 

[William Ronald]

(sighs)

Interpersonal communication can be hard. If I was better at it, I might just write reasonably sized posts, and not book sized posts.
But if you can somehow ignore or get past all the Fluff in my above post, I did have some Crunch in there (somewhere in there. It's there. Promise!)

It's in there, and I did finish the post. (If you want length, try reading academic text books. )

By a paradigm shift, I meant a change in attitude. I think that there is more of an interest in being part of recreational activities as opposed to being a spectator thant there was in the past. This, along with the increased use of roleplaying as a tool in schools and in the workplace, might make RPGs a little more acceptable.

There are a few threads on WotC advertising, and a discussion on something like the old boxed set. Possibly a company needs to create a very good introductory product that can help serve as a bridge to other gaming products. As for the growth of the hobby, I have seen a few young people at different events such as RPGA conventions and EN World Gamedays.

As for imagination and jealousy, my experiences have differed a bit from yours in some ways. I have seen creativity rewarded, and I think many DMs have the sense to use rules as guides and not as legal codes. However, I have seen some games get out of hand. I think this has more to do with the people involved than the game rules.

As for brevity, your last post was shorter than this one! See, you are already improving your interpersonal communication skills! So, maybe divide the longer posts up into shorter ones. The good thing about communication skills is that there is always room for improvement. (For example, I find that I am better at interpersonal communication now than I was 20 years ago.)

 

[jdrakeh]

Most people are not intelligent enough, personable enough, or willing to commit the work needed to make an RPG an enjoyable experience.

I see that the elitist geek fallacy about roleplayers being more intelligent, personable, and hardworking than other people is still alive and well.