Pathfinder 1E If Paizo bought Greyhawk could they make their money back?

[Steel_Wind]

Because less than 50% of the fanbase for D&D has regular internet access. It really trips me out that posters on ENworld seem to asume that majority of people who play D&D have regular internet access or even their own computer to download files onto.

That's because we believe that they do.

I would be careful - very careful - in citing marketing data collected and mentioned by WotC and Ryan Dancey over the years. The effluxion of time has rendered it obsolete and innacurate.

That is not because it was corrupted or misquoted when gathered - but because it is now exceedingly old.

I believe that the market data gathered prior to 3rd edition was accumulated in 1998 through to 1999. That's eight years - coming up on a full decade out of date.

As anecdotal evidence, a recent comment by Erik Mona and James Jacobs reveals that Paizo essentially receives zero mail from its regular readers delivered through the US postal system. All letters to the editor for both publications are delivered via e-mail. The sole exception to this rule is that they still receive physical mail from those who are incarcerated in prison as that select group does not enjoy have access to the internet.

An odd exception to the less than 50% stat you quote? I doubt it - (or D&D is played by over a million convicts in prison! )

I do not believe in any way, shape, or form that less than 50% of the customer base for
D&D does not enjoy regular internet access. I believe that any such stat, if it was once true, is no longer true. I reject it as 100% dead wrong and obsolete information.

Now, if what you mean to say is that a relatively small portion of D&D players actively and regularly use the internet to gather information on the game - that may be true. But no regular access?

Nope. I ain't buying that in the least. As doubters on Wikipedia are prone to say: [citation needed]

 

[MrFilthyIke]

That's because we believe that they do.

I would be careful - very careful - in citing marketing data collected and mentioned by WotC and Ryan Dancey over the years. The effluxion of time has rendered it obsolete and innacurate.

That is not because it was corrupted or misquoted when gathered - but because it is now exceedingly old.

I believe that the market data gathered prior to 3rd edition was accumulated in 1998 through to 1999. That's eight years - coming up on a full decade out of date.

As anecdotal evidence, a recent comment by Erik Mona and James Jacobs reveals that Paizo essentially receives zero mail from its regular readers delivered through the US postal system. All letters to the editor for both publications are delivered via e-mail. The sole exception to this rule is that they still receive physical mail from those who are incarcerated in prison as that select group does not enjoy have access to the internet.

An odd exception to the less than 50% stat you quote? I doubt it - (or D&D is played by over a million convicts in prison! )

I do not believe in any way, shape, or form that less than 50% of the customer base for
D&D does not enjoy regular internet access. I believe that any such stat, if it was once true, is no longer true. I reject it as 100% dead wrong and obsolete information.

Now, if what you mean to say is that a relatively small portion of D&D players actively and regularly use the internet to gather information on the game - that may be true. But no regular access?

Nope. I ain't buying that in the least. As doubters on Wikipedia are prone to say: [citation needed]

Maybe it is somwhere in between. My gaming circle contain approximately 15 people. Of those people, about 3 are interested in gaming sites, and I am the only one on gamind/d&d forums. The rest are not interested in gaming sites or have the time (even though they have the internet).

So, I think the truth lies between that 50% comment, and your 100% rebuttal.

 

[RatPunk]

The only way GH can regain its former status is through the good works of one Gary Gygax.

Whether or not he would even consider this on a sustained basis is no sure thing.

Also, we now know that many elements "floated" (mentioned) as GH components were so much vaporware... Ideas with little or no development that would (might perhaps) eventually take form (maybe) if the schedule permitted it and the demand was there.

Canon would need to reintegrate its course from that moment in time when Gygax got pushed out of TSR.

Tall order...

Otherwise, what's so great about Greyhawk? Why would that setting sell above any other?

I disagree with this whole heartedly. I have been a Greyhawk fan for as long as I've been playing D&D (approaching 28 years now and I've never played a campaign set anywhere else). I would gladly buy any Greyhawk products put forth by Erik and the Paizo crew because, based on what I've seen from them already, I know that they love the setting and would most certainly treat it right.

 

[kenobi65]

So, I think the truth lies between that 50% comment, and your 100% rebuttal.

Well, the distinction is between "has Internet access" and "uses the Internet for gaming information / research."

According to the Pew Internet and American Life Project, in December 2006, 70% of U.S. adults reported using the Internet. Internet usage skews highly by education level and income (details are here ).

I would expect that gamers as a whole would skew higher than that 70% on Internet access. But, I'd also concur that, at least IME, it doesn't mean that they're using the Internet for gaming info. I'm in 3 different gaming groups; every single member of those groups is online, and at least uses e-mail (that's how we schedule game dates, and is how we've done it for several years now). However, of the 20 or so gamers across those three groups, AFAIK, I'm the only one who does things like visit gaming message boards, buy PDFs, etc.

 

[crazy_cat]

Maybe it is somwhere in between. My gaming circle contain approximately 15 people. Of those people, about 3 are interested in gaming sites, and I am the only one on gamind/d&d forums. The rest are not interested in gaming sites or have the time (even though they have the internet).

So, I think the truth lies between that 50% comment, and your 100% rebuttal.

There are six of us, at present, in my gaming group. We all have internet access, we all use e-mail to schedule games and in fact we found each other via the web, and we all visit websites related to gaming - if not to post on forums tehn at least to catch up on news and new developments.

In more general terms I'm not sure I actually know anyone at all these days who doesn't at the very least have internet and e-mail access from their workplace.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Maybe it is somwhere in between. My gaming circle contain approximately 15 people. Of those people, about 3 are interested in gaming sites, and I am the only one on gamind/d&d forums. The rest are not interested in gaming sites or have the time (even though they have the internet).

So, I think the truth lies between that 50% comment, and your 100% rebuttal.

I didn't say the number was 100%, I said that the notion that less than 50% of players have regular internet access is 100% dead wrong.

That would be a distinction with a difference.

My guess is that the number is closer to 80-90%. The numbers skew for age, education level and ethnic background - all of which is in D&D's favor.

As for how many regularly use it for gaming related purposes? I don't pretend to know. What "regularly use" and "gaming related purposes" means is very much open to interpretation (and spin).

If the real point was "how many use it to shop on RPGnow?" I expect the number is exceedingly low and in the very low single digits (assuming it makes it to even 1% - an assumption I am not prepared to make).

 

[Imaro]

I didn't say the number was 100%, I said that the notion that less than 50% of players have regular internet access is 100% dead wrong.

That would be a distinction with a difference.

My guess is that the number is closer to 80-90%. The numbers skew for age, education level and ethnic background - all of which is in D&D's favor.

As for how many regularly use it for gaming related purposes? I don't pretend to know. What "regularly use" and "gaming related purposes" means is very much open to interpretation (and spin).

If the real point was "how many use it to shop on RPGnow?" I expect the number is exceedingly low and in the very low single digits (assuming it makes it to even 1% - an assumption I am not prepared to make).

Soooo, then we're in agreement that Greyhawk material on PDF isn't as viable an option for a greater number of consumers as a Greyhawk print product. (This was really the point of my thread post.)

Oh yeah and I can totally agree with you about those figures being out of date, but I don't think it's as high as you quote 80 to 90% of D&D players. I also would like to point out that for downloading large PDF's you really need a high speed connection, not just dial-up which can accomodate e-mail, basic internet access, etc. and a credit card.

 

[Ranger REG]

Why would I want to do that? I can't trust you with my capacity for going into debt.

I don't want your trust. I just want your credit card number.

Unless someone have the bright enterpreneural idea to offer internet kiosk at FLGS to buy PDF with CHC.

 

[Felon]

I wonder what I'm missing out on here. Is Greyhawk really such a detailed and unique setting that it's really a big deal whether or not there's material specifically published for it? Because everything I"ve learned about it describes it as being a broadly-detailed generic D&D world. Why can't I just plop my Goodman Games adventure in Greyhawk and get the same net effect as playing a Greyhawk-specific adventure?

 

[rgard]

I wonder what I'm missing out on here. Is Greyhawk really such a detailed and unique setting that it's really a big deal whether or not there's material specifically published for it? Because everything I"ve learned about it describes it as being a broadly-detailed generic D&D world. Why can't I just plop my Goodman Games adventure in Greyhawk and get the same net effect as playing a Greyhawk-specific adventure?

I don't think you are missing anything. If you own the older GH stuff and want to use it as a back drop, it's fine to use your other adventure modules in the setting. The setting isn't straight-jacketed by its related fiction like FR or DL, and GH is much more generic than Eberron.

I guess what some folks want is the older GH stuff update to 3.5 and on-going adventure modules to support it. Maybe some Valley Elf specific PrCs?

All I can suggest to the die-hard GH fans is to buy the upcoming GH product and hope it generates enough sales for the powers that be to consider more.

Thanks,
Rich