If the devils are how monsters will be....I am so happy

[Mephistopheles]

I'm not making assumptions. That is, unless in 4E, 'straw cottage' has become a creature type.

Ever since a gazebo got away with it they're all giving it a shot.

 

[Celebrim]

Leave out the snark when making your comments please.

Thanks

This commented wasn't directed at anyone. The sarcasm was intended as criticism of rules mechanics and design philosophy. In particular, I was pointing out that anyone could reasonably believe the notion of a 100 Legions of devils explosively committing suicide should, under the rules, be a vision of apocalyptic destruction, but that in following a particular design philosopy, the designers had written the rules such that they explicitly forbid 'terrain deformation' as too complicated. It certainly was no criticism of anyone for expecting Legions of devils going 'boom' to have the logically expected results.

If you have a problem with the comment, please email me to explain why.

 

[Celebrim]

Ever since a gazebo got away with it they're all giving it a shot.

LOL!

 

[med stud]

And the Pit Fiends signature ability, irresistable command is most of the time a very bad idea as a living, damage dealing minion is more valuable than a small one time explosion so this ability won't get used often (unlike in the written tactic for this monster).

Observe "most of the time". It can be used to deny an opponent on the ropes the possibility to heal, it can be used on a stunned minion or on an ally with 4 HP left. Since it is AoO you can also deal much total damage in the right circumstances.

I think this ability is useful. Not in the meteor swarm totally obvious way but in a more subtle way.

 

[Derren]

Do you know how effective his summoned fiendish allies are in combat? Or, more importantly, how long they can actually last against the epic level party? I wouldn't be surprised if each of them couldn't survive more than one or two rounds of damage by the group, and thus making it very likely for the Pit Fiend to let one of them explode...

When the summoned devils are really this weak then they don't really serve a purpose except as exploding fodder. (It seems in 4E monsters will have high HP and low damage. And when those devils have so low HP that they fall after 2 rounds then their attacks will be even lower).
So the party is free to gang on the Pit Fiend.

 

[med stud]

When the summoned devils are really this weak then they don't really serve a purpose except as exploding fodder. (It seems in 4E monsters will have high HP and low damage. And when those devils have so low HP that they fall after 2 rounds then their attacks will be even lower).
So the party is free to gang on the Pit Fiend.

Remember that the pit fiend can boost their offense by lowering enemy defenses. I also think the developers said that monsters of lower level than PCs should stay usable for a longer time than they did in 3e.

 

[Derren]

Remember that the pit fiend can boost their offense by lowering enemy defenses. I also think the developers said that monsters of lower level than PCs should stay usable for a longer time than they did in 3e.

And here is the problem.
Either the minions are still strong, then the irresistable command will not see much use as it is tactically better to let the devils live.
If the minions are weak so that exploding them is the best thing to do then the PCs will likely ignore everything the Pit Fiend summons as they pose no thread and gang up on the Fiend.

Also the debuff only works for 1 round.

 

[TerraDave]

Hmm, a lot to respond to, but I will stick to exploding minions.

The fiend can blow up fiends that are already low on HP. He can use them to pile on one weak player.

And he can have other minions. The encounter doesn't have to be 2 pit fiends (and I don't think anything is saying that is the defualt). It could be a pit fiend and a small army of much lesser creatures, plus what he summons. It is perfectly consistent with the fiends role.

 

[TwoSix]

One combat strategy note I thought of in regards to Irresistible Command. Most of us are aware that focus-fire is a better strategy on multiple enemies than spreading out damage, because one dead enemy means much less damage coming in than two weakened but still living ones. Irresistible Command makes ganging up on one minion at a time far more dangerous than it would have been before. The question becomes, then, is ganging up on one minion less dangerous than leaving them alive to concentrate on the pit fiend? It raises an interesting tactical question that I think makes for good combat.

The other aspect I like about Irresistible Command is the "simulationist" aspect. For all the complaints that the stat block gives no information about the monster outside of combat, Irresistible Command tells you an awful lot about the heirarchy of Hell, and the exalted position pit fiends hold within it.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

And here is the problem.
Either the minions are still strong, then the irresistable command will not see much use as it is tactically better to let the devils live.
If the minions are weak so that exploding them is the best thing to do then the PCs will likely ignore everything the Pit Fiend summons as they pose no thread and gang up on the Fiend.

Also the debuff only works for 1 round.

With their +4 to attack from the Pit Find, they are strong in the offensive. If the melee damage of the Pit Fiend is any indication, weapon damage for monsters doesn't increase as much as in 3E. So they still deal some damage damage to the PCs.
But with their Minion state and their lower level, their hit points and defenses won't be a real match, so if anyone focuses on them, they go down quickly. But maybe still not fast enough, and surviving the first round might be enough to warrant a little bit of exploding on the second round.