If the devils are how monsters will be....I am so happy

[Cadfan]

So, if you play HP totally in the dark (or if you just describe 100% HP - 50% HP - dead) I can sort of understand your position.

Even if you only describe 100% - 50% - Dead, its still possible to draw some logical conclusions. If my legion devil minion was bloodied last round, and then some dude in leather armor popped out of nowhere and stabbed my poor legion devil minion in the face with a big knife, I can assume he's worse off than before, and that maybe I should euthanize him. You know, because its the humane thing to do.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Thematically I don't like the Irresistable Command ability. I think it just seems a little too comical a scenario for me given the context in which players will generally be encountering a Pit Fiend.

Tactically I guess it will have its uses. Until we have a more complete picture of how 4E works it's pretty difficult to discuss its effectiveness in any meaningful way.

 

[Ipissimus]

I have to keep reminding myself that the Pit Fiend is a 'leader', not a 'controller', and thus doesn't need all the old spell-like abilities that made combat so flavorful. Of course, I like the multiple actions per round rather than 'use spell-like ability, do nothing while you get pawned' style of play. From the sounds of things, there'll be ways to customize the monsters anyway.

Hardest thing is wrapping the brain around the new paradigm.

 

[Celtavian]

re

I'm not real sure why you are impressed. Seems like they turned the Pit Fiend into a pure melee fight and have given him limited tactical options. This looks like a very boring and simplified version of the Pit Fiend. The more I see of 4th edition, the more I don't care for it. Watered down DnD for the masses. I understand the desire to market to a wider audience, but I don't know that I care for it myself.

 

[pemerton]

Seems like they turned the Pit Fiend into a pure melee fight and have given him limited tactical options.

Given the number of underlings the Pit Fiend can summon, plus the default assumption that there will between 2 (Elite + Normal) and 6 (Minion) monsters accomanying the Pit Fiend in a standard level 26 encounter (or even more, if the GM makes up the relevant number of XP to constitute a 26th level encounter by using monsters of below 26th level), I think you are underestimating the tactical options.

It's just that the tactics are no longer "look at stat block, try to find optimal SLA". Rather, the tactics are "look at battleground on which there is a Pit Fiend in command of a dozen or so allies, and optimise the hurt to the PCs".

 

[med stud]

I'm not real sure why you are impressed. Seems like they turned the Pit Fiend into a pure melee fight and have given him limited tactical options. This looks like a very boring and simplified version of the Pit Fiend. The more I see of 4th edition, the more I don't care for it. Watered down DnD for the masses. I understand the desire to market to a wider audience, but I don't know that I care for it myself.

What tactical diversity do you think the new pit fiend lack that the old pit fiend had? When I read your post I had a look at the 3.5 SRD and the pit fiend entry and I didn't see a lot of tactical diversity there.

 

[JLXC]

The demons lost way too much if that's a real stat block for them. The Pit Fiend is pathetic in it's options, seriously. With those simple combat only abilities how the heck could they rule demons? It's stupid. They would have to be just like they WERE to merit such status. Heavy and varied magical options would be needed.

Is this the prelude to the new Wizard/Sorceror/Cleric?

10th level Wizard

Magic missle, let's see Fireball, some mini teleport, and a couple other spells. 7 total. That's it, but I can use some of them often!

WOWIE. Big freaking deal. From thousands of possible spell options to 7 or so.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

Is this the prelude to the new Wizard/Sorceror/Cleric?

From everything we've been told, no.

 

[JLXC]

From everything we've been told, no.

I don't believe that at all. So the party spellcasters will have the usual array of thousands of different spells at it'd disposal, and the Pit Fiend, an epic level Demon Lord, will have attack, scare, or mini port? You think that's seriously the case?

 

[Simon Marks]

With those simple combat only abilities how the heck could they rule demons?

No.

The stat block lists all of the things the Pit Fiend is going to do in the context of a fight.

The rest of it is undefined as opposed to non-existent.

See, Alatherion the Pit Fiend (in my 4e campaign) has the ability to know exactly where all his allies are and command them telepathically. Without getting confused.
Melkizor the Red, on the other hand, has bound the souls of a Draden cluster and can use 999 of it's Draconic children at his whim.
The Black Mask, on the other hand, has complete control over the city of Night and with effort can alter it's structure.

None of that is in the stat block because none of it comes up in a fight.

All those abilities I mentioned are Rituals, assuming rituals are like incantations.

The 4e stat block isn't telling you how Pit Fiends rule Hell. Just what it can do right here, right now, in this fight.