If you have a Dex penalty, does that apply to your Flat-Footed AC?

[billd91]

I have given this quite a bit of thought as well. It seems that a flat-footed character probably could be given a break on their AC since they aren't reacting and thus making their defense worse as they usually do, right?
But the Dexterity 0 = -5 penalty comes around and gives me pause. If they truly aren't reacting, as in completely unable to do so, they should get a -5 Dex penalty to their AC. So flat-footed doesn't truly mean they aren't reacting at all, it's a limit on the extent of your ability to react. What flat-footed does is it caps your ability to react so that you are vulnerable to sneak attacks and any advantage you have over the average Joe is gone. But if you have less ability than your average Joe in the first place, then you still suffer the penalty.

It helps me to justify the rule.

 

[hong]

A lot of confusion would be averted if they just started all the scales from 0, instead of 10.

 

[hong]

If you have a bonus, and you DON'T try, then you probably won't catch the arrow. If you have a penalty, and you DON'T try, then you probably won't catch the arrow, and I would say the probability of catching the arrow in both circumstances is exactly the same.

If you have a bonus or penalty and you DON'T try, then you DEFINITELY will not catch the arrow, assuming it's not aimed directly at you.

Unfortunately, in an attack situation the arrow IS aimed directly at you. NEXT!

 

[Li Shenron]

A penalty wouldn't make someone who ISN'T trying any worse than the average person who isn't trying. You don't agree?

You seem to forget the fact that being flat-footed doesn't mean you don't TRY! It means you are caught off-guard or surprised.

It doesn't mean you don't bother to avoid the blow. It means you cannot take FULL advantage of your dexterity.

 

[ElectricDragon]

Look at the various oozes, nobody complains that the oozes' AC should be 5 higher when flatfooted.

Ciao
Dave

 

[tylermalan]

"It lists what your Dexterity modifier applies to; one of the bullet points is:
Armor Class (AC), provided that the character can react to the attack."

This carries no weight?

 

[Henry]

"It lists what your Dexterity modifier applies to; one of the bullet points is:
Armor Class (AC), provided that the character can react to the attack."

This carries no weight?

It does, but still doesn't necessarily contradict the other rule that says your bonus isn't added, if you take that the writer is probably thinking of only DEX bonuses here. Personally, I think that this particular clause is poorly worded, because designers have in the past been pretty clear what it applies to from a rules standpoint -- that bonus isn't counted in flat-footed, and penalty is. (I don't have references at the moment, so I don't expect you to take my word for it.)

How many times have we seen poorly-worded rules because someone who is writing the generic copy is not using terminology sharply, or is thinking about a previous version of a game rule? (We just now have a thread floating around here about magmin doing "heat damage" instead of fire damage.")

From a common sense standpoint, AC 10, Dex 10 is the baseline of "John Doe" reacting to an attack. A Dex 12 guy flat-footed acts no faster than John Doe does to the same attack. The Dex 8 guy, however, is that much closer to just standing still, which is covered by the Armor class of something with a Dex of 0. At Dex 1, he's almost as bad as standing still. AC 10 is NOT standing still -- it's a modicum of being evasive.

 

[green slime]

It could be argued that the bad Dex people are so utterly clumsy, they are more likely to blunder in to an attack, even when flat-footed, just through sheer incompetence.

 

[werk]

"It lists what your Dexterity modifier applies to; one of the bullet points is:
Armor Class (AC), provided that the character can react to the attack."

This carries no weight?

Only a bonus is lost when flat footed. "A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any)..."

What you are talking about is an ability modifier, and they are active unless otherwise countered, like when flat footed. You are looking at a specific exception that is called out and interpreting it to be the general rule.

 

[Li Shenron]

It could be argued that the bad Dex people are so utterly clumsy, they are more likely to blunder in to an attack, even when flat-footed, just through sheer incompetence.

If you do exactly the equivalent thing with the other 5 abilities, then I'll accept that argument, although it would certainly result in quite a different game.

But if you use this reasoning only for Dex, then it makes no sense.