If you have a Dex penalty, does that apply to your Flat-Footed AC?

[green slime]

If you do exactly the equivalent thing with the other 5 abilities, then I'll accept that argument, although it would certainly result in quite a different game.

But if you use this reasoning only for Dex, then it makes no sense.

What the equivalent be for Intelligence?

 

[Mistwell]

If you do exactly the equivalent thing with the other 5 abilities, then I'll accept that argument, although it would certainly result in quite a different game.

But if you use this reasoning only for Dex, then it makes no sense.

It's from a specific rule regarding armor class, not a general rule. "Armor Class (AC), provided that the character can react to the attack." That's pretty specific. It's not just a blanket "ability modifiers of any sort" rule.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It could be argued that the bad Dex people are so utterly clumsy, they are more likely to blunder in to an attack, even when flat-footed, just through sheer incompetence.

No, a -1 penalty is still blundering away from an attack.

If someone who is paralyzed takes a -5, then you couldn't be blundering into an attack until your modifier somehow got to -6. Even a Dex penalty of -4 is still better at dodging something than a watermelon.

Someone with a Dex bonus is not completely motionless when caught flat-footed; he is simply limited to dodging as well as an average, Dex 10 commoner.

Someone with a Dex penalty (if we ignore PHB p8) is not completely motionless when caught flat-footed; he is simply limited to dodging as well as an average, Dex 10 commoner... except that he's not actually as good as an average, Dex 10 commoner on his best day, so the limit doesn't really affect him.

(If we take p8 into account, he actually gets better at dodging while unable to react to an attack.)

-Hyp.

 

[green slime]

No, a -1 penalty is still blundering away from an attack.

If someone who is paralyzed takes a -5, then you couldn't be blundering into an attack until your modifier somehow got to -6. Even a Dex penalty of -4 is still better at dodging something than a watermelon.

Someone with a Dex bonus is not completely motionless when caught flat-footed; he is simply limited to dodging as well as an average, Dex 10 commoner.

Someone with a Dex penalty (if we ignore PHB p8) is not completely motionless when caught flat-footed; he is simply limited to dodging as well as an average, Dex 10 commoner... except that he's not actually as good as an average, Dex 10 commoner on his best day, so the limit doesn't really affect him.

(If we take p8 into account, he actually gets better at dodging while unable to react to an attack.)

-Hyp.

You are right as usual! Curse you, you little blue kiwi smurf ! (Translation:this green kiwi slime thanks you!)

 

[tylermalan]

From a common sense standpoint, AC 10, Dex 10 is the baseline of "John Doe" reacting to an attack. A Dex 12 guy flat-footed acts no faster than John Doe does to the same attack.

Man, you really put it into perspective. The only thing I don't agree with is the above.

I think the Dex 12 guy DOES act faster than John Doe - in the form of an initiative bonus received from his higher Dex.

 

[tylermalan]

It could be argued that the bad Dex people are so utterly clumsy, they are more likely to blunder in to an attack, even when flat-footed, just through sheer incompetence.

That was also my line of thinking, until I thought "Well, the same person could be so clumsy, and therefore random or erratic (on accident) that they could just as easily blunder AWAY from an attack."

 

[tylermalan]

Only a bonus is lost when flat footed. "A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any)..."

What you are talking about is an ability modifier, and they are active unless otherwise countered, like when flat footed. You are looking at a specific exception that is called out and interpreting it to be the general rule.

So you're citing the "more specific trumps more general" rule?

 

[tylermalan]

No, a -1 penalty is still blundering away from an attack.

If someone who is paralyzed takes a -5, then you couldn't be blundering into an attack until your modifier somehow got to -6. Even a Dex penalty of -4 is still better at dodging something than a watermelon.

Someone with a Dex bonus is not completely motionless when caught flat-footed; he is simply limited to dodging as well as an average, Dex 10 commoner.

Someone with a Dex penalty (if we ignore PHB p8) is not completely motionless when caught flat-footed; he is simply limited to dodging as well as an average, Dex 10 commoner... except that he's not actually as good as an average, Dex 10 commoner on his best day, so the limit doesn't really affect him.

(If we take p8 into account, he actually gets better at dodging while unable to react to an attack.)

-Hyp.

So, are you saying that p8 makes the ruling not make sense, and you're going with the opposite?

 

[Hypersmurf]

So, are you saying that p8 makes the ruling not make sense, and you're going with the opposite?

I'm saying that p8 leaves room for argument, but in my own game, I'd ignore it and go with every other reference in the rules.

-Hyp.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

The base AC of 10 assumes everyone is taking 10 on their defense. There are rules options in place in d20 for rolling defense with each attack, where sometimes you're at a disadvantage and just might be blundering into the attack, but it slows down game play, so take 10 is the norm. A dex 8 guy taking 10 has a base AC 9, flatfooted or not.

The entry for Constitution says apply the modifier to Hit Dice rolls. So undead get to do that as well, right? It says to right there.
No, because another entry says undead don't get that.

Same with Dex:

ARMOR CLASS
Your Armor Class (AC) represents how hard it is for opponents to land a solid, damaging blow on you. It’s the attack roll result that an opponent needs to achieve to hit you. Your AC is equal to the following: 10 + armor bonus + shield bonus + Dexterity modifier + size modifier

Note that armor limits your Dexterity bonus, so if you’re wearing armor, you might not be able to apply your whole Dexterity bonus to your AC.
Sometimes you can’t use your Dexterity bonus (if you have one). If you can’t react to a blow, you can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC. (If you don’t have a Dexterity bonus, nothing happens.)

That right there says your Dex mod applies, but sometimes you can lose the bonus. A penalty is always there.