Ignoring the 4e DMG

[S'mon]

I'm currently running a 4e 'sandbox' game which ignores the 4e DMing advice about 10 balanced encounters to level, 10 treasure packets with this distribution of items, etc. Last session the 1st level PCs ran into dozens of 9th level Orc Warrior minions (and ran away). Their next encounter was with 2 1st level brute fire beetles (200 XP, well below standard 500). They seemed to have a great time.

I don't use the DMG skill challenge rules either. While there seems some good advice in the 4e DMG, along with some bad advice, it occurred to me that really, I don't seem to need that book at all. Possible exceptions: The XP table for assigning Quest XP, and page 42 for designing new monsters and threats.

I have a game today and I'm thinking I might as well leave it at home, just bring a copy of page 42. I was wondering if anyone else has had the same experience? It seems a big change from the 1e DMG, which had the combat rules - or even 3e DMG, which still had the magic items in it. Is the DMG redundant? Does a 2-book model work fine these days?

 

[vagabundo]

I always leave the DMG at home. I use it for prep only.

I think that is the proper use for the DMG - the 4e DM screen has the important tables anyway.

 

[Wik]

God. I use the DMG all the time. Making monsters + NPCs are super important. Plus, I tend to reward items on the fly, so I have the packets table handy.

But if I were running a sandbox? I don't know. I'd probably still use it - the traps and sample skill challenges are fine areas to mine from during play. I tend to fly by the seat of my pants when I run.

 

[GSHamster]

An experienced DM can probably get away without the DMG.

But that stuff is vital for a newbie DM.

 

[S'mon]

God. I use the DMG all the time. Making monsters + NPCs are super important.

I've just been reskinning stuff from the Monster Manual (eg I needed some giant weasels, so used wolves with half hp). If necessary I level up or down, eg the 4th level MM warmage can be levelled up to 8th for a powerful NPC battle wizard.

The 'classed' NPC creation rules seem much too fiddly for me, and the monster creation rules don't seem to include how to assign suitable powers, only stats. The 3e DMG pregenerated NPC charts were useful, but there's nothing like that in the 4e DMG.

 

[S'mon]

Plus, I tend to reward items on the fly, so I have the packets table handy.

Since it's the PHB that has the actual items, that's where I go to for magic items to assign, or roll up randomly.

 

[S'mon]

But if I were running a sandbox? I don't know. I'd probably still use it - the traps and sample skill challenges are fine areas to mine from during play. I tend to fly by the seat of my pants when I run.

I don't find the skill challenge rules helpful, or even useable if applied strictly as written. I do run something resembling a skill challenge (several rolls required to succeed) but I don't find the formal system useful.

Re traps, I use page 42 for damage and DCs. For traps' attack rolls the listed (post errata) DC -10 works.

 

[Gort]

Well, if it works for you, that's great. I must say, I think ten combat encounters per level is too much - the published modules are just fight after fight after fight. The amount of plot for an entire Wizards module I would fit into about half a dozen combat encounters and some inbetween stuff (talking to people, physical challenges etc).

Oh, on the subject of skill challenges, I like the Obsidian system very much. It boils down to "each player rolls 3 skill checks using skills they can justify (bonuses due to relevance and roleplaying), depending on the successes rolled the challenge is more or less successful". The big difference is that the challenge ends after 3 checks each rather than after X failures, and that the DCs have actually been thought about by a real person using actual brain cells.

 

[CapnZapp]

You're a professional - you can break the rules!

 

[Thanlis]

I don't usually bring my DMG with me either. It's for prep work.

I think you're pretty much in line with the DMG's advice as far as encounter balancing goes. After all:

"If every encounter gives the players a perfectly balanced challenge, the game can get stale. Once in a while, characters need an encounter that doesn’t significantly tax their resources, or an encounter that makes them seriously scared for their characters’ survival -- or even makes them flee."

The DMG then goes on to discuss how to approach various difficulties, including specific advice for how to use monsters that are more than 8 levels higher than the characters.