Illithid Psionics Conversion (new thread)

well, you seem to know more about psionics than i do, so i will defer. ;) it seems to be about 80% close to my list, so i'll assume your greater knowledge makes your rearrangement better. :)

how would you do the other creatures on this page? (so as not to ignore them - people do want those too!)

and everyone else - would you be satisfied with jester's representation of the elder brain's psionics? should i edit it at all, or go with it as is?
 

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BOZ said:
well, you seem to know more about psionics than i do, so i will defer. ;) it seems to be about 80% close to my list, so i'll assume your greater knowledge makes your rearrangement better. :)

Er, I don't know about that- I just tried to convert each power as much as possible and find the closest equivelent I could... I'm not a psionics expert by any means, though; I haven't actually played a psionic pc in 3e yet. But thanks for the vote o' confidence! :D

how would you do the other creatures on this page? (so as not to ignore them - people do want those too!)

and everyone else - would you be satisfied with jester's representation of the elder brain's psionics? should i edit it at all, or go with it as is?

I'll take a look when I get a chance...
 

well, if you've studied the book at all, you're probably more knowledgable than i. maybe if *someone* out there with knowledge of the psionics handbook could come in and evaluate this thread...
 

what level of psion do you think the Kigrid would be at? the original text did not specify, hence the ? in the space of its psion level.

If you show me the original monster, maybe I could answer the question. Sadly, even when a manifester level was given it 2e, it often didn't match. The monster might have the wrong MTHAC0 and an unusual number of power points, for instance. There are four things to look at: Hit Dice, MTHAC0, manifester level (if given) and # of PSPs. The # of PSPs gets the lowest priority, however, since so many 2e monsters got it wrong.

Edit: found it.

Kigrid FREQUENCY: Rare (common in Illithid areas) NO. APPEARING: 1-3 ARMOR CLASS: 3 MOVE: 12"/15" HIT DICE: 9 +27 % IN LAIR: 20% TREASURE TYPE: C NO. OF ATTACKS: 2 claws and 1 bite DAMAGE/ATTACK: 2-8/2-8/2-16 SPECIAL ATTACKS: Poisonous bite, psionics, rear claws, for 2-12/2-12 SPECIAL DEFENSES: Surprised only on a 1 in 10, psionics MAGIC RESISTANCE: 35% INTELLIGENCE: Very ALIGNMENT: Chaotic evil SIZE: M (5' long) PSIONIC ABILITY: 90 +2d20 Attack/Defense Modes: A,E/F,G,H Kigrids may be found singly or in small groups. They are always hungry and will attack and eat any vulnerable creature. A kigrid is a stocky, four-legged creature with a short tail, powerfully built legs, a short neck, and broad head. It has sharp claws, and there are four tough, spiky tentacles around the broad, beaked mouth. The skin is black and the eyes a dull red. These beasts are cunning and malicious, and generally unreliable. In combat, a kigrid will strike with claws and teeth. If the forepaws both score hits, the rear claws may be used for additional attacks. If the beak hits the opponent, a saving throw vs. poison is necessary. A failed saving throw means the poison causes swelling and pain that lasts for 2-5 rounds (penalty of -2 to armor class, saving throws, and rolls to hit). Kigrids have the psionic disciplines of ESP, body equilibrium, levitation, and invisibility. They are perfect mimics and often use sounds to deceive prey. Their tentacles allow them a limited ability to manipulate objects, and they may rig simple traps. Kigrids generally avoid one another unless they are closely related; the more powerful individuals generally regard the less powerful as food. They reproduce in the same manner as cessirids and embracs. On occasion, large kigrids are used by Illithids as beasts of burden; how this is accomplished without constant supervision is unknown.

Was this a 1e monster? I'd say 9th-level manifesting, but you may want to reduce that slightly (mind flayers used to have 10th-level manifesting, and the Kigrid isn't that powerful).

as i see it, these (for the illithidae) need a "spell-like ability" analogue:
body equilibrium
domination
empathy
mind blank

Use the same system as the Monster Manual II, which also has a workable way around combat modes if you don't use the PsiH :)
Mind Blank and Domination are spells.

also, these 1st-edition powers need translation into both 3E psionics, and 3E "spell-like ability" psionics:
dimension walk
hypnosis

Dimension Walk could be a pseudo-spell-like ability, like the intellect devourer's body thief ;) or it could be supernatural, like the temporal filcher's time shifting abilities.

Hypnosis - there's a spell very similar to that in the 3e Players' Handbook. You are allowed to say use the spell as a psionic power, just not too often :)

As an aside, you are also allowed to drop powers that a monster may have had in 2e, especially if they were useless or broken. If a power is not mentioned in a 2e monster's combat section, and the power can't be used for role-playing purposes, then the power should be dropped.

also, how do the attack/defense modes work if psionics are used as "spell-like abilities"? do they work at all, or are they just dropped off if the PSiHB is not used in your game?

If you don't use the PsiH, then you should ignore all combat modes except for Mind Blast.

Even if you use the PsiH, no one uses them. The Mind's Eye is coming to the rescue in February, however, and so is the author of the Psionics Handbook - he is releasing a product called "Mindscapes" that you may find interesting, at www.montecook.com - also in February.
 
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(Psi)SeveredHead said:
Was this a 1e monster? I'd say 9th-level manifesting, but you may want to reduce that slightly (mind flayers used to have 10th-level manifesting, and the Kigrid isn't that powerful).

yeah, i think it was 1E - but only just barely. 2E came out either that same year, or the next year. i'll trust your best estimate, since i have no idea. ;)
 

Clairsentience – Sciences: clairaudience, clairvoyance; Devotions: all-round vision, know location.

Ubiquitous Vision would be useless for the elder brain (since it has that psionic sense) and Know Location is useless for a stationary creature.

Psychokinesis – Sciences: create object, molecular rearrangement, telekinesis; Devotions: ballistic attack, control body, control light, create sound, inertial barrier, levitation.

Levitation isn't useful for a creature that floats in water.

Psychometabolism – Sciences: complete healing, energy containment, metamorphosis; Devotions: body control, body equilibrium, suspend animation.

Metamorphosis isn't useful - at least, I've never heard of an elder brain that turned into something else and went walking. Body Equilibrium is probably useless for an elder brain, but since all mind flayers are supposed to have this power... Suspend Animation isn't useful, either - the elder brain will never use it.0

Psychoportation – Sciences: banishment, probability travel, teleport, teleport other; Devotions: astral projection, time shift, time/space anchor.

The Elder brain won't ever use Astral Projection, from what I understand.

hy – Sciences: domination, ejection, mass domination, mind blast, mindwipe, probe; Devotions: awe, ESP, false sensory input, id insinuation, mind thrust, post-hypnotic suggestion, taste link, psychic crush.

Domination needs to be changed - it only works on humanoids, but the elder brain will want to mind-control those grimlock servants. Detect Thoughts is pretty useless, due to the elder brain's special senses and Mind Probe.

Psionics – Sciences: empower, psychic surgery, ultra-blast; Devotions: cannibalize, magnify, prolong, psionic inflation, psychic drain.

Psychic Chirurgery was a very different power in 2e - effectively, it was a mind-healing power and Incarnate. I don't think the Elder Brain is into healing others, and it doesn't have anything to Incarnate.

At will - adapt body, astral projection, awe*, banishment, body equilibrium, catapsi, clairaudience/clairvoyance, control body, control light, create sound, detect thoughts, dimensional anchor, domination, energy barrier, fabricate, false sensory input, know location, levitate, mass domination, matter rearrangement, metamorphosis, mind probe, mindwipe, probability travel, psychic chirurgery, psychic vampire, sense link, suggestion, suspend life, telekinesis, teleport, ubiquitous vision, and ultrablast. These abilities are as the powes manifested by a 20-th level psion.

I commented on some of these above. In doubt an elder brain will ever use Adapt Body, Catapsi, Levitate (that's what Telekinesis is for), Psychic Vampire, Suspend Life, or Teleport (where to?).

Attack/Defense Modes (Sp): At will - ego whip, id insinuation, mind blast/all.

Looks good.

These powers are also listed for the elder brain, and I'm not sure what their 3rd edition equivalents are, if any:
ballistic attack

A new power, or just use Telekinesis.

complete healing

Greater Body Adjustment, but Lesser Body Adjustment at will works better. (GBA has a limit based on the Elder Brain's Strength score. See the Mind's Eye.)

teleport other

Basically a death power.

time shift
Time Hop... I think.


No longer required, but Mind Blank does the trick (and keeps the elder brain from being detected).

mind blast

Done already :)

id insinuation

Brain Lock is very similar, but with better powers available the Elder Brain might never use Brain Lock.

mind thrust, psychic crush

The old Mind Thrust (and Ego Whip) together were similar to Mind Wipe. Psychic Crush was similar to Inflict Pain.

empower, cannibalize, magnify, prolong

Empower = item creation feats. Cannibalize is now Body Fuel, Magnify is now Fortify Power and Overpower (or just Maximize Power) and Prolong is Extend Power.
 

oh man, it's been so long since i've really looked at any of this... i'm going to have to look at this when i have a couple of hours to dedicate to it, and my copy of the illithiad and PsiHB handy.

any comments on the psionics for the other creatures listed here? urophion, ulithdarid and the illithidae?

and, please, if you get a chance, i wouldn't mind some input on my sardior conversion. :) (in case you're not familiar, he's the lord of the gem dragons, and a god laden with psionics!)
 

For "ballistic attack", one could simply convert "launch item" (FRCS I think) to a psionic power -- I think Monte Cook's supplements would have some ideas as to how that would be handled.

It's a small help, mind you.

- Devon
 

About Sardior... the Mind's Eye is releasing the official 3e Sardior in late January.

Urophion:

Level 9
Dis/Sci/Dev – 3/2/8
Att/Def – EW, II, MB/All
Score = Int
PSPs – 1d100+100
Players’ Option rules: #AT 1; MTHACO 11; MAC 5

Psychokinesis –Devotions: control body, levitation.
Psychometabolism –Devotions: body equilibrium.
Telepathy – Sciences: domination; Devotions: awe, ESP, post-hypnotic suggestion, taste link.

Not much works needs to be done here :)
I don't have the Illithiad, but it looks like virtually all of these are useful. Body Equilibrium and Sense Link aren't particularly useful in combat, but they are "flavor" (eg ordinary mind flayers often have these powers)

As for the ulitharid - I really liked the way mind flayers were done in the Illithiad, but not the ulitharid. It's virtually the same thing as a mind flayer.

I would suggest Charisma 18, giving it a couple more manifester levels, and one more power (Tailor Memory, or better yet the bard spell Modify Memory as a psionic power).

Cessrid
Psionic Ability: 90
Attack/Defense Modes: B,E/F,G
“Cessirids may use the following psionic disciplines at the 6th level of mastery: body equilibrium, ESP and dimension door.”

This is pretty basic. With only 3 powers known, I guess it would have around 7 manifester levels.

Embrac
Psionic Ability: 80 + 1d20
Attack/Defense Modes: A/F
“Embracs may employ the following psionic disciplines at the 5th level of mastery: empathy, ESP, invisibility, and mind bar. They may also produce illusions that are like a spectral force at the 5th level of casting in all respects except that the illusion has no potential to cause direct damage. The cost of this latter psionic discipline is two strength points per round.”

Psionics: 3/day-detect thoughts, empathy, invisibility, mind blank (or something similar), major image. These abilities are as the powers manifested by a 5th-level psion.

Kigrid
Psionic Ability: 90 + 2d20
Attack/Defense Modes: A,E/F,G,H
“Kigrids have the psionic disciplines of ESP, body equilibrium, levitation, and invisibility.”

Each 3/day, I suppose.

Saltor
Psionic Ability: 130 + 2d20
Attack/Defense modes: A/F,G
“Saltors… of average intelligence have psionic power plus the disciplines of levitation, ESP and body equilibrium, all at the 5th level of mastery.”
“Exceptional saltors have 1-3 of the following psionic disciplines, determined at random:

1d6 – Discipline
1 – Domination
2 – Hypnosis
3 – Dimension door
4 – Dimension walk
5 – Mind Bar
6 – Astral projection”

This takes a bit more work. I assume the "average" Saltor has average intelligence.

Exceptional Saltors would be advanced saltors. Usually advancing a psionic creature does not grant more powers, but you can make an exception in this case.

Like the D20 Modern SRD does, you can include an advanced version of the creature, and you can also "suggest" powers that a typical Saltor might discover (eg Dimension Door).
 

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
About Sardior... the Mind's Eye is releasing the official 3e Sardior in late January.

i'll pretend i didn't hear that. :p

heh, well, at least i'll be able to compare it to mine eh? :)

LOL just kidding, glad to see that someone didn't forget him! :)
 

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