I'm a bad DM

[Umbran]

So if you don't feel like playing, it's not so bad to stay away - which will mean that the others cannot play, often meaning that you have wasted their time (since they may have not agreed to other stuff because of the game) - as it would be to attend?

No way in all the hells.

You see, it is this absolute stuff that I just can't abide.

There comes a point where the player's attendance would render the session a waste of time to the other players. If you already know you've got a headache, had a really bad day at work, or are for whatever reason apt to be annoyed, depressed, snippy, or otherwise notably less than on the ball, I'd prefer you not attend, and allow the rest of us to have a good time doing something else rather than waste our time with a bad gaming session.

For me, having the good time is primary. I don't want you showing up if it means we'll be having a bad time. I can generally manage a last-minute change of plans, I cannot manage to rewind time so that folks get a bad session back again after the fact.

D&D is a group activity, not something that involves only you. It involves people commiting time. If someone can't keep a schedule, he's wasting other people's time, he's showing disrespect. I wouldn't want to have anything to do with such a person.

Yes, but note that respect is supposed to cut both ways - the individual player must respect the group's needs and vice versa.

I went away from several gaming groups because it contained people like that. Not bothering to show up, not saying anything (or only 5 minutes because the game started). I missed many opportunities to do other stuff because I was commiting myself to a game that was later cancelled because of some idiot who didn't feel like playing.

You had a problem with consistent absenteeism. Fine. All I said was that the move to the other end of the scale - absolute intolerance of any absenteeism ("NEVER good enough," and "No way in all the hells," have been the phrases used) - is not any better.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

You see, it is this absolute stuff that I just can't abide.

There comes a point where the player's attendance would render the session a waste of time to the other players. If you already know you've got a headache, had a really bad day at work, or are for whatever reason apt to be annoyed, depressed, snippy, or otherwise notably less than on the ball, I'd prefer you not attend, and allow the rest of us to have a good time doing something else rather than waste our time with a bad gaming session.

Now you cite reasons. Before, it sounded like "I'm not in the mood so I just stay away."

We usually play at weekends, so the "bad day at work" doesn't apply.

Plus, we often had groups where a single player not attending would mean the whole session was cancelled. Often it would be cancelled because of one player, and often the reasons weren't a lot less dramatic than what you cited.

Yes, but note that respect is supposed to cut both ways - the individual player must respect the group's needs and vice versa.

Of course: We don't force someone to play if he's bleeding and needs to be rushed to the hospital. But not attending for no reason at all (or for ridiculous reasons like "I'd rather watch this DVD I bought") is not the way to treat others.

You had a problem with consistent absenteeism. Fine. All I said was that the move to the other end of the scale - absolute intolerance of any absenteeism ("NEVER good enough," and "No way in all the hells," have been the phrases used) - is not any better.

I have to agree with you here: not tolerating any absence for any reason at all isn't right.

Note that the "no way in all the hells" (mine) was aimed at not attending because you'd rather go swimming.

The NEVER good enough (from the thread starter) was aimed at not attending but telling noone. Unless you lie unconscious in a ditch or are 50 km away from the next phone (which, I think, is physically impossible around here, and I guess it's not that much different in most parts of the US), not coming at all and not telling anyone really is never enough. As someone else said: There's phones, payphones, mobile phones, other people's phones, email, SMS, and shouting very loudly. It's hard not to reach anyone unless you refuse to put any effort in it.

 

[Fishbone]

I think the "NEVER" thing is getting taken the wrong way. I mean a permanent drop without explanation, like "What the hell happened to Jude? Is he ever coming back to game?"
Happens online, where somebody won't post for hours, maybe even days, and the whole group is left wondering "Well, WTF? Is he going to post or what?"

 

[Elf Witch]

I guess I have been lucky that the players in my group don't pull this BS. Sure we miss games but it is usually due to illness, work or an emergency of some kind.

And people always call. And we discuss things like scheduling around vacation and things like that.

For example we knew one of our players was going to miss several sessions due to his wife having a baby. So we worked his character out for a while.

I would have little patience playing with someone who kept missing games because he had something better to do.

 

[RFisher]

For me, gaming has always first & foremost been about spending time with friends. When it comes right down to it, the friendships are more important than the game will ever be.

I was in a situation once in which the group would play whenever they could get two or three of us together. Even if the other players didn't even know about it. I eventually had to ask that there be a separate campaign that was only played at a regularly scheduled time so that if I missed a session it was because I'd choosen to miss a session. Not because I didn't know about it or because they'd decided to have an impromptu session when I had something else scheduled.

 

[Wasteland Knight]

I find some of the statements that spending time with family and loved ones should take a backseat to a game of D&D to be appalling. Blowing off games regularly for no real reason isn't a good thing. Missing a game for any reason, other than serious emergency, and not communicating your intended absence to the group is definitely a bad thing.

I'm a D&D addict, with the shelves full of RPG books to prove it. I play in two biweekly games and have almsot 100% attendance in each. I do my best to work the mundane issues of life around my gaming days so I can attend. My non-RPG'ing friends and family respect my hobby, and understand I've made a committment to be somewhere 4 times a month. That said, if there's a reason I need to spend time with those people I care about, I would choose them over a game every single time.

 

[ceratitis]

pardon my rudeness but i feel your problem is more personal then DM. i have no idea if you're a good or bad dm, what you posted is irrelevant to this.
its a game, its meant to be fun. a while back we changed dm's in my group and i wasnt having much fun with the new dm up to a point where i almost quit. either change the way you play or find players that enjoy your style but picking a fight with a friend 'cos he prefered going out with a girl rather then play is just plain silly and a great way to lose his friendship. is that really what you want?
Z

 

[Kae'Yoss]

pardon my rudeness but i feel your problem is more personal then DM.

Get out of here! What makes you think that?

its a game, its meant to be fun.

You have to see it's more complicated than that. It's not just like Quake, where you can just log on to a server when you feel like it, shoot a couple of guys and log off when you're done.

It's a game, yes, but it's also a social event. It's not you alone. If you don't feel like playing Quake today, you just don't, it's no big deal. If you don't feel like playing D&D today, you're going to mess up several people's day.

picking a fight with a friend 'cos he prefered going out with a girl rather then play is just plain silly

It's not "picking a fight with a friend 'cos he prefered going out with a girl rather then play".

It's "being annoyed at a so-called 'friend' because he left you out in the rain, not bothering to tell you what he's doing, and just plain ignoring that you and half a dozen other people were counting on that idiot being there and now your guys' evening is wasted."

and a great way to lose his friendship. is that really what you want?

I don't want to be friends with a guy who can't be bothered not to waste my time.

 

[Elf Witch]

I find some of the statements that spending time with family and loved ones should take a backseat to a game of D&D to be appalling. Blowing off games regularly for no real reason isn't a good thing. Missing a game for any reason, other than serious emergency, and not communicating your intended absence to the group is definitely a bad thing.

I'm a D&D addict, with the shelves full of RPG books to prove it. I play in two biweekly games and have almsot 100% attendance in each. I do my best to work the mundane issues of life around my gaming days so I can attend. My non-RPG'ing friends and family respect my hobby, and understand I've made a committment to be somewhere 4 times a month. That said, if there's a reason I need to spend time with those people I care about, I would choose them over a game every single time.

I don't think anyone is saying that you should not spend time with family or that family should take a backseat to gaming.

But if make a commitment to join a gaming group then you need to be able to make the sessions most of the time. Thr groups I have played in all the people had kids, spouses , jobs very busy lives and yet we managed to get together and play on a regular basis.

It is one thing to cancel a session to be with your spouse if they are sick or it is a special day or there is a big family event. But just because they want you go to see a movie instead of play that is kind of rude to the people who you mad ea commitment to be with on that day.

We are not unreasonable sure we understand things like my wife has been out of town for a week and gets back on game night and I missed her and I want to spend that night with her. Or I met this really cool guy and the only night he is free for several weeks is game night but to blow of your friends just because you can't wait one night to go out withsome new is in my opinion rude.

I know if I was going out with a new guy and he told me that he had a regular hobby thing say on Friday so we would have to make our date on Saturday I would think better of him than if he blew off his friends because to me that shows someone who takes other people's time and feelings into consideration.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I know if I was going out with a new guy and he told me that he had a regular hobby thing say on Friday so we would have to make our date on Saturday I would think better of him than if he blew off his friends because to me that shows someone who takes other people's time and feelings into consideration.

Exactly. After all, if that person doesn't care about that kind of commitment, what will keep him from ditching you the moment someone else takes his/her fancy? sHe sure doesn't seem to think other people's feelings are more important than his/her having a good time.


No matter how much people keep saying that D&D is a game, there remains one stone cold fact: It's not something for loners, for people who only think about themselves and not about others. Those that think otherwise are better off with WoW or something (and then only playing by yourself, for what I heard about those guilds sounded like they don't think too kindly about people who won't commit, either).