I'm burning out, again....

[shilsen]

These are all close friends whom I play with. Some I've known for 7 years. It'd be a bit hard to drop them just like that.

Fair enough. But I wasn't suggesting dropping all interaction with them. Just not playing D&D with them. After all...

I suppose I should state that as DM, I love rules and crunchy bits and everything. No problem there. The players just don't seem to get a lot of them.

Also, they simply don't appear interested in the game.

...in this case, maybe they want different things from the game than you do. So maybe you should play D&D with people whose tastes fit your own better, and either play other games with these guys or just do things with them other than gaming.

I'm reliably informed one can do things with friends besides game, though I'm damned if I can think of anything

 

[Lhorgrim]

Have your players always been like this with the options available to their PCs? It sounds like there is a disconnect between what you are looking for out of the session and what the players are looking for.
I've been there, but I was more like the players in your situation. At the time, I just wanted to spend time with my friends (who just happened to be gamers) and blow off some steam from the class load. My DM had an intricate epic story filled with colorful NPCs, and all we wanted to do was kill some orcs and laugh and maybe have a beer and a slice of pizza.
That was just a phase for me. Now I'm seeking an experience instead of an escape, and having a heck of a time finding any game at all.
Maybe a change of pace would do you good. Play a short series of offbeat games, or let somebody else DM for a while. Be prepared though, the new DM may run the type of game he was looking for while you were DMing, and it may be shallow hack and slash.

 

[Gundark]

2 things to consider

#1. Change games. Whether it's d20, true 20, savage worlds, WHFR, Spycraft 2.0, d20 modern, Iron heores or whatever. Sounds like a lot of your frustration comes from rules and rules squabbles. Maybe a lighter system will do the trick.

#2. Go published adventures. If your players don't care why should you kill yourself over planning? All that hard work is for nothing. Find a series of adventures you like and run it. You can always modify adventures as you go if the adventure design bug bites you.

 

[freyar]

I guess the question is whether the players would rather have a hack+slash or if they just can't keep up. One thing I've tried is "cheat sheets" with the important feats, etc, highlighted for the players. Maybe if they don't need to worry so much about the rules, they could get more into the game? Otherwise, probably you should let one of them try to DM or run something simpler, like people have said. From what I've heard, the APs sound like they might be too hard for this group, even if they do push through the plot.

 

[Kaladhan]

Sounds like it's a problem with the group rather than with anything else. Why not try to find another set of people to play with?

I have the same opinion. I would also suggest to simply drop them, but since it's not an option, I suggest you shake them. For example:

1. You have 2 minutes to come up with what you do in combat (rule specifically designed for the mage). He doesn't know what he does in 2 minutes? Skip his round.
2. New houserule : Spell DC are 5 if you don't know them.
3. Use hordes of undead. Hordes of them.
4. Give them a sizable xp bonus for the players who use their abilities (marshalls' aura or cleric's turn attempt).
5. Play a rule-light system, like Amber.
6. Have a player step up as DM for a few game sessions. Maybe he will understand your point of view now.

 

[caudor]

Sometimes even the greatest adventurers need to take a break, put the sword on the mantle, and sharpen their edges.

When you come back...think atmosphere (as opposed to this or that rule).

I had a serious bout with clinical depression in 2005, (I had given up not only gaming, but life). I though I'd never have an interest in gaming again.

Some time after I recovered, I was sitting at home thinking of a scene in my head. A group of adventurers were holed up in a barn---resting on the hay. In sharp contrast, a storm raged outside. Winds blew. Thunder clapped. Brilliant flashes of lighting illuminated the cracks along the walls. Out in the rain, a ghoulish hand touched the wet wood, and switched...my itch to play returned.

Sorry about getting off on a tangent. When the time comes to return, you'll feel that itch.

 

[The Thayan Menace]

Carpe Diem!

Brother Nyaricus:

Find a new group that shares your passion for the game ... and brand your symbol on all nonbelievers.

-Samir Asad (TM)​

 

[Imaro]

In defense of your players, they may just be "causal gamers", and I'm sorry but the minutae of D&D rules may not appeal to their idea of "fun". I think the suggestion above might be a good one, try a game with less "crunch". I personally love C&C as a game and would recommend it highly, but it's not the only option out there.

My group are casual players and I have realized it's not necessarily a bad thing, just something you have to compromise for. This is why I've kind of grown disenchanted with D&D myself, it really does require a substantial investment from players and doesn't work well when that investment is lacking. My players love the "adventuring" aspect, enjoy the story being told and like to roleplay. But they very rarely understand the intricacies (especially as pertain to combat and magic), terminology, etc of D&D. Find very little fun in keeping track of their options, modifiers, etc. But you know what it's cool with me because I was also starting to get a little bogged down DM'ing D&D.

Now I can also see it from your perspective, you seem to enjoy the "crunchier" aspects of the game, tactical choices, etc. Have devoted a significant amount of time to "rules mastery" and enjoy those aspects of D&D. I can't help but think you and your players either...

A.) Don't want the same things out of the game.
B.) Aren't willing to devote the same amount of time for the game
C.) Need to find some sort of compromise game(if in fact you wish to keep gaming with these particular people)

Me, I found a game that suited me and my players, but then again I had grown steadily disenchanted with the rules minutae of D&D and wanted a change that coincided with my players preferences.

 

[Dog Moon]

Move down to Minneapolis, MN. A spot just opened up in my group that we're looking to fill.

You wouldn't even have to DM atm, either. One DM is doing Savage Tide and I'm about to start my own campaign.

Actually, on a more serious note, if they don't seem to know the rules well, it might almost be painful seeing them DM. It isn't so bad if a person is controlling a single PC, but not the entire world. A person who didn't understand the rules once DMed my group. We were walking over a bridge and a creature leapt up from beneath, grabbed a PC and chucked him over the side into the chasm below. We were like 'wait, what? how many rules were just broken or special feats was this creature given?' Rest assured he did not last long as a DM. [Although it did give me a brilliant idea of Troll Suicide Bombers. ] Either grab and drop or simply drop from above.

Sorry to hear things aren't going well for you, Ny.

 

[jdrakeh]

Next time I burn out, I'm in serious trouble 'cause I have a gaming madman's company logo tattooed on the back of my head -- I'm in for life, now!