D&D 5E I'm *GASP* Actually Going to Be Playing 5e in a Few Weeks -- What are the Character Creation Pitfalls to Avoid?

[ChrisCarlson]

Still it's about a 30% boost in damage IME. On paper it looks like 50% per frenzy but you lose some from exhaustion or having other bonus actions.

I'm curious how you come to these numbers. Because combat rolls during the first three instances of using frenzy* are not affected by your exhaustion levels. So why are you downgrading their expected value?

(*net)

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Those of you who believe exhaustion is too severe a limit on frenzy: What are you opinions of how the berzerker plays once the cleric has access to greater restoration?

 

[Ahglock]

I'm curious how you come to these numbers. Because combat rolls during the first three instances of using frenzy* are not affected by your exhaustion levels. So why are you downgrading their expected value?

(*net)

Not getting to them as quickly(level 2 halves my speed and my enemies haven't been obliging enough to run up to me often enough), more often failing my athletics check to escape things like a grapple, and like I said other uses of my bonus action usually dropping a enemy and getting one from my great weapon master.

 

[Ahglock]

Those of you who believe exhaustion is too severe a limit on frenzy: What are you opinions of how the berzerker plays once the cleric has access to greater restoration?

About the same. It's s 5th level spell that removes only a single level of exhaustion. If the cleric has it to spare when camping for the night he'd toss one but more often than not it was too bad I don't have it too spare.

The spell can return you from being turned to stone but being tired is too much for it.

Not really related to its balance but It being a bonus action bummed me out, I wanted a dual hand axe wielding berserker mixing and matching melee and thrown attacks. but frenzy then did nothing.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Not getting to them as quickly(level 2 halves my speed and my enemies haven't been obliging enough to run up to me often enough), more often failing my athletics check to escape things like a grapple, and like I said other uses of my bonus action usually dropping a enemy and getting one from my great weapon master.

Okay. As long as we all realize that you just listed a string of things that have nothing to do with the design of the class (and its interactions with exhaustion on a rules-level), and everything to do with your table's playstyle and choices...

Half-move: Being isolated away from enemies isn't something I've experienced enough on which to place a measurable value. Plus, with the barbarian's bonus speed, even halved from exhaustion, he is practically keeping pace with his dwarf, halfling, and gnome allies.

Escaping grapple: Just hit it. It's got you right where you want it. Besides, dead things let go.

GWM: Well yeah. You chose to take options that overlap or have redundancy. Nothing to do there.

 

[Ahglock]

Okay. As long as we all realize that you just listed a string of things that have nothing to do with the design of the class (and its interactions with exhaustion on a rules-level), and everything to do with your table's playstyle and choices...

Half-move: Being isolated away from enemies isn't something I've experienced enough on which to place a measurable value. Plus, with the barbarian's bonus speed, even halved from exhaustion, he is practically keeping pace with his dwarf, halfling, and gnome allies.

Escaping grapple: Just hit it. It's got you right where you want it. Besides, dead things let go.

GWM: Well yeah. You chose to take options that overlap or have redundancy. Nothing to do there.

And how is your positive experience any less table dependent? The thing is the in game experiences is what created the negative feelings of so many people for the berserker. So your I trust in game to theory crafting idea while solid would indicate that for the vast majority of people who post the in game experience if frenzy is lack luster at best due to exhaustion. So maybe my table dependent experiences are more common than yours in this regard.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

And how is your positive experience any less table dependent?

It's not. Although there may be something to be found in the fact that one of us is experiencing "problems" while the other isn't. And what that may, or may not, say about how we are using 5e in the hopes of making a fun and enjoyable game for everyone at the table...

The thing is the in game experiences is what created the negative feelings of so many people for the berserker. So your I trust in game to theory crafting idea while solid would indicate that for the vast majority of people who post the in game experience if frenzy is lack luster at best due to exhaustion. So maybe my table dependent experiences are more common than yours in this regard.

I believe you are adding undue weight to whatever online complaints (of any magnitude) you may see and any correlation to the vast play experiences across all 5e players in the world. When you add to that, the fact that some repeat complainers around here openly dislike everything about 5e (others still never even bothered to have played it yet), I think you find the real numbers of people playing 5e, who believe something "universally sucks" is rather small.

 

[CapnZapp]

As amply demonstrated by the above, [MENTION=85870]innerdude[/MENTION], the Berserker Barbarian is one choice you should definitely avoid until you have gotten a more solid feel for the campaign and your DM's play style.

In contrast, the Totem Barbarian is a very strong fightery choice, with none of the uncertainty and DM-style-dependant factors that can make the Berserker build suck for you.

TL;DR: While it is possible to make a Berserker work, the benefits are definitely not worth the risk.


PS. Aaron and Chris: sorry but I'm done wasting my time arguing with you. By now it's clear that you are incapable of letting any criticism against your favorite game stand, no matter how valid. Any level-headed observer would easily see that the penalty for berserking is unpopular, and not something you would suggest to a newcomer to this edition like innerdude.

 

[Ahglock]

Totem barbarian is kind of dependent I the campaign. If you aren't facing elemental damage often bear isn't much of a add. It mechanically would have been beter for me though, so berserker was weaker. On The other hand as little as frenzy helped me I still did fine so going with what you imagine will work. I expect in most default or average campaigns berserker is worse hence the overwhelming consensus there. Whether it's bad enough to change someone's choice though I don't know. It's certainly not for me. I'll take almost never using frenzy but being a berserker over being a hippie barbarian any day.

I mainly mention it as the topic is about traps. And I think how heavily exhaustion can hit you falls under that. Though while I think this is a lot less likely if you never deal with damage outside slashing etc bear totem is a trap I guess. For me and I think a lot of campaigns frenzy is a trap or close to it since you either rarely use it to avoid exhaustion or are unduly penalized. Some campaigns the penalties are less relevant.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Funny enough, the first berzerker I saw in play was that player's first 5e character, and new to the game. He did fine.

True story.