D&D 4E I'm Not Sure I Can Afford 4e

[Ryngard]

Let's say you really like to play half-orc barbarians. In 3.5, you can do that with just the PHB, which you can get for under 20 dollars online. In 4.0 you need to buy PHB I, which is more expensive than the 3.5 PHB, plus maybe PHB II and have a subscription to the DDI. So playing the same character is considerably more expensive in 4.0 than 3.5. I believe that that's the point that pawsplay is trying to make.

That isn't a good argument.

You don't NEED DDI and the extra books. Nobody ever said that.

You (in theory) will be able to play a Half-Orc out of the Monster Manual 1. Then give him some levels in Ranger/Fighter or whatever mix simulates the FEEL of the Barbarian and bam. You have the same char. Basically.

OH, you mean with FULL write ups with the NAME "Barbarian"... well then yeah you probably will need PH2 when it comes out... but come on man that is a weak argument.

In 3.5 say I REALLY want to play a... Illumian Duskblade. Well guess what? I need PHB1, PHB2, and Heroes of Destiny. How is 3.5 any better?

The issue is that the race/class combo that you like the best isn't in the first set of books... I can understand your pain but... try something else! Nothing says you can't get the same flavor of a Half-Orc Barbarian without SPECIAL named classes.

2e didn't have the Barbarian and we had those kind of characters all the time.

I think the problem is labels are getting in the way.

 

[Wolfspider]

Um... this was exactly the case with every edition of D&D in the past, as my bookshelf full of 1e/2e/3e and BECM (I don't have Immortals) can attest to.

This kind of post is the reason why so many folks lately have been claiming that these forums are not friendly to people critical of 4th edition. In your post, you pretty much imply that the OP's concerns are not valid, neatly dismissing what he has to say without reall answering it. Your "Um..." certainly doesn't help, coming off as very condescending. I'm sure you're not the only one who remembers the many products that have come out over the years for the various D&D iterations.

(I will admit up front that I don't think that the moderators automatically shut down anti-4e threads or any other conspiracy nonsense. The moderators here at ENWorld are the best I've ever seen on any forum. I also don't think that these forums are overly hostile to anti-D&D threads--just some individual posters are.)

So what if it was exactly the case with every other edition of D&D in the past? That's really a strawman in this instance. What the OP is talking about in this thread is the additional expense of starting up the entire buying process again.

In addition, while D&D3.5 had a PHB 2 and a DMG 2 near the end of its run, the model of a player's handbook every year is built into 4e's business strategy.

Sure, a D&D gamer doesn't have to buy everything, but I think many gamers will understand the compulsion to do so. New shiny books! New crunch and options! It's quite addicted, and once you buy one book, the itch starts.

I don't blame the OP at all for feeling the way he does. If he wants the official versions of all of the races and classes available to him in v3.5, he will have to buy additional sourcebooks from WotC beyond the core. Why bother if he has all that material already available to him at no additional cost?

(And I mean no offense to those working on the Advanced Player's Handbook for 4th edition. I'm sure it will go a long way toward adding back these ignored elements to the game. The fact remains, however, that some gaming groups do not use 3rd party material and only consider WotC to be official.)

 

[Fifth Element]

I think the problem is labels are getting in the way.

Very good point. Especially during discussion of classes and roles.

 

[Wolfspider]

You (in theory) will be able to play a Half-Orc out of the Monster Manual 1. Then give him some levels in Ranger/Fighter or whatever mix simulates the FEEL of the Barbarian and bam. You have the same char. Basically.

So the half-orc will be in MM1? I thought they were going to tinker around with the concept for a while before introducing what they thought was a controversial element into the game....

 

[Shazman]

That isn't a good argument.

You don't NEED DDI and the extra books. Nobody ever said that.

You (in theory) will be able to play a Half-Orc out of the Monster Manual 1. Then give him some levels in Ranger/Fighter or whatever mix simulates the FEEL of the Barbarian and bam. You have the same char. Basically.

OH, you mean with FULL write ups with the NAME "Barbarian"... well then yeah you probably will need PH2 when it comes out... but come on man that is a weak argument.

In 3.5 say I REALLY want to play a... Illumian Duskblade. Well guess what? I need PHB1, PHB2, and Heroes of Destiny. How is 3.5 any better?

The issue is that the race/class combo that you like the best isn't in the first set of books... I can understand your pain but... try something else! Nothing says you can't get the same flavor of a Half-Orc Barbarian without SPECIAL named classes.

2e didn't have the Barbarian and we had those kind of characters all the time.

I think the problem is labels are getting in the way.

Maybe because the half-orc barbarian is "core" while the illumian duskblade is not? "Core" has a very specific defintion in 3.5. WotC created that definition. If you want to play some things that are "core" in 3.5 in 4.0, you have to wait a year or so and pay a lot extra. So 4.0 is shaping up to be a lot more expensive than 3.5 if you just want to use what is considered "core" in 3.5. That's the point pawsplay is trying to make. Even the 3 initial core books are about 10 dollars more a piece than the 3.5 books.

 

[FourthBear]

Yep, it's a shame that you will have to buy several rounds of PHBs and MMs plus a DDI subscription just to get what most people consider "core". It's one of my main sticking points with 4E. The naked greed of this marketing strategy really rubs me raw.

I think that what will be provided in the three 4e books will be equivalent in the quantity of content to previous editions, although obviously not identical to the exact distribution. Not all options will be there, because that would an impossibility. If you have very specific needs for your D&D campaign that will not be satisfied by what in the PH, DMG and MM, I think you'll be in the same boat as you would be in all previous editions with only those three books. I know that personally I would use tieflings over gnomes in my previous campaigns, so I would have to house-rule or buy other books to support that design decision.

I do agree that if the prospect of buying the 4e books sounds like not enough gain for too much expenditure, then there's no reason to change editions. As others have noted, you could play for eons and have a lot of fun with any of the previous editions. Especially if you enjoy house ruling and creating your own content. Frankly, if you're on the fence, I would just wait for a time post-release and see if you like what reviews and free content you can find.

 

[Wolfspider]

RPG player gets memo that games are a business as well as a hobby, doesn't like it. Film at 10.

Thank you for your valuable contribution.

 

[Fifth Element]

This kind of post is the reason why so many folks lately have been claiming that these forums are not friendly to people critical of 4th edition. In your post, you pretty much imply that the OP's concerns are not valid, neatly dismissing what he has to say without reall answering it. Your "Um..." certainly doesn't help, coming off as very condescending. I'm sure you're not the only one who remembers the many products that have come out over the years for the various D&D iterations.

I'll agree that the "Um..." is condescending, but the essential point is not dismissive or invalid. If that were true, then any post disagreeing with someone could be read as dismissive.

The point is valid. The OP is complaining about 4E specifically, not previous editions of D&D. The response points out that D&D has pretty much always been that way. This is perfectly valid.

 

[Fifth Element]

So 4.0 is shaping up to be a lot more expensive than 3.5 if you just want to use what is considered "core" in 3.5. That's the point pawsplay is trying to make.

I see. Is the argument then that there is going to be change in 4E? Of course the "core" is going to change from one edition to another. If it doesn't, there's no point in having a new edition.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I will buy the initial 3 core books and probably give DDI a trial. After that I will buy whatever interest me, just like I did in 3.xe.

I see the marketing strategy of WotC and do not have a problem with, they have to make money too.