I'm sick of symmetries

[The Shaman]

The symmetry thing is annoying: it's dull, it's rote, and it gets taken to ridiculous extremes (deathless, anyone? 'good' poisons? 'good' ASSASSINS? sheesh!).

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Black gaurd versus Paladin- Not very symetric (PRC vs Core class)
Demons and Devils versus Angels and Archons- Not symetric...at all.
Good Domain versus Evil Domain- Not quite symetric.
Turn Undead versus Rebuke Undead- Very Symetric

The list goes on and on in D&D. The fact is some things are very symetric and some aren't at all. It's not as if everything is in D&D. In fact I'd say most things aren't.

 

[DamionW]

I was considering making my own thread to ask the following question, but as long as this one exists, I'll post it here. In every DnD supplement regarding elements, they make the following associations: Fire element -> Fire energy, Air Element -> Electrical energy, Water element -> Cold Energy, Earth element -> Acid energy, Sonic energy outside of all elements. My question is:

Has anyone found any kind of rational explanation for Earth to be associated with Acid?

Fire is fire, that's obvious
Lightning comes from the sky when the Air element gets excited with energy
Water element opposes Fire element, so Cold energy opposes Fire/heat energy, also the first manifestation of cold energy is condensing water into ice.

So what rationale is there for Earth to be acid? I just don't get that symmetry.

 

[Zappo]

You should probably avoid systems like HERO or M&M, then. (Base power) + (some special effect) is a tested and valid design choice.

That's not the problem; the problem is concepts that have basically no relation outside the metagame, getting lumped together. I'm all for having powers with variable effects (the psion powers have plenty of good examples) - provided that the different effects are related by something in the world, rather than just a quirk of the world's model (aka the rules).

 

[Psion]

I was considering making my own thread to ask the following question, but as long as this one exists, I'll post it here. In every DnD supplement regarding elements, they make the following associations: Fire element -> Fire energy, Air Element -> Electrical energy, Water element -> Cold Energy, Earth element -> Acid energy, Sonic energy outside of all elements. My question is:

Has anyone found any kind of rational explanation for Earth to be associated with Acid?

Fire is fire, that's obvious
Lightning comes from the sky when the Air element gets excited with energy
Water element opposes Fire element, so Cold energy opposes Fire/heat energy, also the first manifestation of cold energy is condensing water into ice.

So what rationale is there for Earth to be acid? I just don't get that symmetry.

There is none. Alkili I could see (maybe relabel "acid" damage as "caustic" damage.) But really, water is more reasonable as acid is all about balance of ions in water. But that's bringing lots of modern think into the game.

Anyways, I chuck the whole one-to-one element/energy symmetry on its ear. The elemental savant becomes the energy savant (though I'll have to think of a different 10th level power... the rest of the class's powers have nothing to do with elements.)

 

[buzz]

Has anyone found any kind of rational explanation for Earth to be associated with Acid?

A quick Googling shows minerals and other "earth" stype stuff the source of many acids: cave bacteria producing sulfuric acid, sulfurous acid from the slag created by coal slag mixed with rain water, marcesite and pyrite reacting with water, silicates, etc.

Basically, you have organic acids and mineral acids. Mineral acids include hydrochloric, nitric, phosphoric, and sulfuric. Since there is no organic energy type equivalent in D&D, acid is best paired with earth.

IANAChemist, so YMMV.

 

[buzz]

That's not the problem; the problem is concepts that have basically no relation outside the metagame, getting lumped together. I'm all for having powers with variable effects (the psion powers have plenty of good examples) - provided that the different effects are related by something in the world, rather than just a quirk of the world's model (aka the rules).

I see your point, but I guess I still don't see it as problematic. The D&D energy types define the D&D world; the orb spells allow access to those energy types at a potency appropriate to a given spell level. The net game effect of them all is the same (X amount of damage at a given range at spell level Y, but with varying energy types andtheir associated effects), so why not link them by all being orb spells? Seems sensible.

 

[Twowolves]

My question is:

Has anyone found any kind of rational explanation for Earth to be associated with Acid?

So what rationale is there for Earth to be acid? I just don't get that symmetry.

I never liked this either. Cold is not an energy, it's the absence of energy. I always associated to my mind water with acid, cold with air, and force with earth. While I can see the need to have defined "energy" types, I never saw the need to then link them to an "element".

 

[DamionW]

I never liked this either. Cold is not an energy, it's the absence of energy. I always associated to my mind water with acid, cold with air, and force with earth. While I can see the need to have defined "energy" types, I never saw the need to then link them to an "element".

Well, part of the reason I'm asking is I'm developing a 4 Element oriented campaign world, and the clerics are by their nature elemental savants. All the fire spells (arcane or divine) are put on the fire cleric's spell list, all of the cold spells are put on the water list, etc. When I get to Earth however, the acid energy spells just don't sit right next to the Move Earth and Stone Shape type of spells. Earth is rigid and solid. Acid is fluid and caustic, dissolving the very metal that is the strength of the Earth elemental plane. I just don't see the relation.

 

[Aaron L]

I'd rather have the option and not use it than want it and not have it.

Wisdom.