I'd just cut down the number of demihumans if they bother you. One of my campaigns is set in the (modified) lands of Unther and Mulhorand, with Thay and Chessenta close, and neither of those countries likes demihumans very much. The Mulhorandi have kicked out all demihumans several times in their history, Thay is composed almost completely by humans, Chessenta (IMC) has not much place for demihumans, and Unther has some halflings (2%) but not much else, and most of it has been conquered by Mulhorand recently.
I'm sick to death of dwarves, elves, halflings, and gnomes!
- Thread starter Geoffrey
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Dragongirl
First Post
hmmm. Dunno bout the other work you quoted not read it, but the Silmarillion....
"Noldor. The Deep Elves, the second host of the Eldar on the westward journey from Cuivienen, led by Finwe. The name (Quenya Noldo, Sindarin Golodh) meant 'the Wise' (but wise in the sense of posessing knowledge, not in the sense of possessing sagacity, sound judgement)......."
Perhaps Mr. Tolkein used the term in his notes, and then thought better of it in his published works. Find it hard to believe such a typical Englishman for his time would use that term for elves.
Dragongirl said:
Perhaps Mr. Tolkein used the term in his notes, and then thought better of it in his published works. Find it hard to believe such a typical Englishman for his time would use that term for elves.
Well, it is true that Gnomes have that dreadful garden association for any self-respecting, garden-loving englishman.
But for Tolkien they also had the association with the Norse myths, being the deep folk who guard treasures of the earth. Now, those are more similar to dwarves than to elves as he was making them, but he wanted to distinguish the dwarf-like nature of the Noldor in their love of shining things and works of metal and gems. Yadda yadda.Anyway, I asked someone who had the Silm right in front of them -- it ain't in there.
So, this is truly obscure Tolkien lore. It appears in places like the Book of Lost Tales ("But lo! Echthelion, whose face of the pallor of grey steel and whose shield-arm hung limp at his side, strode above him as he fell; and that Gnome drave at the demon, yet did not give him death, getting rather a wound to his sword-arm that his weapon left his grasp.") but you are likely right: he decided it wouldn't translate for the average reader, who would think of little red caps and long-stem pipes and miss the awe-inspiring glory of the Noldoli. 
And then when Christopher put together the Silmarillion, he too probably thought it wouldn't translate so kept it out of there too. He did, however, use the term liberally in his original writings to mean "Noldor"AJL
People alway give me weird looks for playing Lizard, Wolf, or Catmen in a game. Most of them think I have some sort of fetish for furry anthromporiphics. The truth is that I am soooooo tired of playing elves and dwarves and humans.
When I want to play something other than a human, I want it to be different! In every game I have played, no NPCs bat an eyelash at the elf or the dwarf, even if the rural town has never seen such a being.
I play a lizardman, and my GM suddenly has everyone staring at me, acting weird and making racial (specieist?) slurs. The real bummer is when my fellow players start dissing on character's heritiage all the time.
I mean, few people think of demi-humans as well, not human. They take it to heart when DND calls them races, as in a subrace of humanity. Heck I had one DM tell me to stop it when my elf did things like constantly perfer to sleep in a tree instead of the inn, and comment that the palace was ugly because it was blocky and angular with no curves or decoration. He said, and I quote ...
"Why don't you play like a regular person?"
uhh, because my character isn't a regular person, he's an elf.
rant done.
When I want to play something other than a human, I want it to be different! In every game I have played, no NPCs bat an eyelash at the elf or the dwarf, even if the rural town has never seen such a being.
I play a lizardman, and my GM suddenly has everyone staring at me, acting weird and making racial (specieist?) slurs. The real bummer is when my fellow players start dissing on character's heritiage all the time.
I mean, few people think of demi-humans as well, not human. They take it to heart when DND calls them races, as in a subrace of humanity. Heck I had one DM tell me to stop it when my elf did things like constantly perfer to sleep in a tree instead of the inn, and comment that the palace was ugly because it was blocky and angular with no curves or decoration. He said, and I quote ...
"Why don't you play like a regular person?"
uhh, because my character isn't a regular person, he's an elf.
rant done.
Deedlit
First Post
I'll check it out. World of drowtales lacks human influence, but it also revolves around a manga only 5.5 chapters long, and the surface is completely ignored.(Drow domination is very common anyway, as far as demihumans go) At least while there are many humans in Lodoss, you get places like the forest of no return, dark island of Marmo(Humans may usually be kings, but it's filled with drow, ogres, and other beasts), continent of Alecrast(Meadow Sprite domination), and the dragonriding kingdom of Moss(I have no doubt who the ruler is, and it's not one of the humans, but the ancient gold dragon.) Not to mention the fact that dragons are feared, and they appear in vast numbers not only during a war that determines the fate of the world.
Nightfall
Sage of the Scarred Lands
Geoffrey said:
Well I wouldn't say the Scarred Lands humaniods are TYPICAL races. I mean if you want to try something new, there's always Slitheren or Vertigen. Plus maybe a Skeletal Host is kind of fun. Personally I'd love a chance to play a Sutak or perhaps a Pestilite.
Celebrim
Legend
On Tolkien: The short answer is that Tolkien originally called the Noldor, Gnomes, having yet to invent the word 'Noldor', but eventually he decided that it was best to drop the word both because he rather would avoid the associations (already bad enough for elf), and because he preferred the sound of 'Noldor'. So, Gnome does not appear in any of the works published in his lifetime.
On Elves, Drawves, Halflings, and Gnomes: My wife fully agrees, and will probably never again play in a game world were any of those four appear on the grounds that any game world in which any of those four appear is severely lacking in imagination. Hence, because my D&D world contains two of those four, she isn't playing in my D&D world anymore.
I have no love at all for Halflings or Gnomes, and haven't had Gnomes in my campaign EVER and dropped halflings about the time I went to college.
In my campaign world, you may play Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Fey (several kinds), Goblins (several kinds), Orine, and Idreth.
If Elves are a reflection of a certain kind of delicate human beauty, Orine are a reflection of a completely different kind of standard of beauty. Culture is nomadic. Favored class is Bard. Many are Bard/Barbarians. Orine interbreed with Humans and Drawves. Although Orine and Elves find each other attractive, no offspring ever result from thier conjunction.
Idreth are 'born old', being mentally mature at birth. They have collective racial memories, are tall and thin with long gaunt faces, drooping mustaches, and hatchet like noses. They become increasingly stooped with age, but thier appearance is deceptive as they can be quite agile. Favored class is Wizard. Idreth are not particularly virile. New offspring are rare and they cannot crossbreed.
I cannot bring myself to lose either Elves or Dwarves (even to reinterest my wife in fantasy gaming) because those two are so archetypal. They are I think ingrained deeply in the human conscious, and occassionally a gene slips and someone with the obvious physical traits of either is born.
Of course, it's that gene slipping thing that makes it difficult for me to bear using Ogres in my campaign.
On Elves, Drawves, Halflings, and Gnomes: My wife fully agrees, and will probably never again play in a game world were any of those four appear on the grounds that any game world in which any of those four appear is severely lacking in imagination. Hence, because my D&D world contains two of those four, she isn't playing in my D&D world anymore.
I have no love at all for Halflings or Gnomes, and haven't had Gnomes in my campaign EVER and dropped halflings about the time I went to college.
In my campaign world, you may play Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Fey (several kinds), Goblins (several kinds), Orine, and Idreth.
If Elves are a reflection of a certain kind of delicate human beauty, Orine are a reflection of a completely different kind of standard of beauty. Culture is nomadic. Favored class is Bard. Many are Bard/Barbarians. Orine interbreed with Humans and Drawves. Although Orine and Elves find each other attractive, no offspring ever result from thier conjunction.
Idreth are 'born old', being mentally mature at birth. They have collective racial memories, are tall and thin with long gaunt faces, drooping mustaches, and hatchet like noses. They become increasingly stooped with age, but thier appearance is deceptive as they can be quite agile. Favored class is Wizard. Idreth are not particularly virile. New offspring are rare and they cannot crossbreed.
I cannot bring myself to lose either Elves or Dwarves (even to reinterest my wife in fantasy gaming) because those two are so archetypal. They are I think ingrained deeply in the human conscious, and occassionally a gene slips and someone with the obvious physical traits of either is born.
Of course, it's that gene slipping thing that makes it difficult for me to bear using Ogres in my campaign.
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