I'm working on a book and I need your input!

[psyekl]

I've been wanting to release a book of maps for role players, but I need some input to make sure it's something that you would want. Most of the maps will be drawn by hand and I'll make some of them available to the EN World forum for critiques.

1) What maps would you want to see? I draw just about everything from natural cavern complexes to dungeons, animal lairs, castles, towns, cities, modern homes, skyscrapers, sewer systems, space craft, world maps, weapon designs... you name it, I can probably draw plans for it.

2) What genre would you want? Sci-fi? Fantasy? Horror? Historical?

3) How much info do you want? Do you want maps that include a fully detailed adventure, some adventure ideas or just label the rooms and let you decide the uses?

4) Would black and white maps be useful or do you want color? If you want maps in color, I have to learn how to use Photoshop !

5) Please let me know if there is anything you'd like to see that I haven't mentioned!

i've attached a few of my layout sketches as examples. Most of these are still in pencil and are a bit light, so you'll have to zoom in a bit to see them:

 

[psyekl]

For a few more samples, see my previous thread: Do people want hand-drawn maps anymore?

 

[Sunaj2k3]

Don't slap all computer maps with a bad rap....

Wow! I must say the more I see of your drawings and maps Psyekl, the more I like. That player's map is exactly the kind of map I like to hand to players, consider it snagged. Now to answer your questions in turn....

1. What maps would you want to see?
Castles, towns, cities, individual shops/buildings, world maps, dungeons, dungeon/cavern complexes, complex dungeons and dungeon/cavern complexes.

2. What genre would you want?
Fantasy. The profile of the Victorian/haunted mansion was well done, but that type of thing usually doesn't float my boat. Maps of fantastic settings in far, far away places are what I go for. Stereotypical to be sure, but there's something to be said for classic fantasy settings.

3. How much info do you want?
Minimal. A map key, a scale indicator, and maybe an arrow pointing north, but little else. I tend to drag and drop maps into campaigns I'm running and a minimalist approach works best (which may be why Phineas Crow's thread is on my "must view" list every week).

4. Would black and white maps be useful or do you want color?
I can't speak for the other folks, but black and white works best. Don't try and get all fancy and pull a Todd Gamble. He's a gifted cartographer, but his Cartographica book of maps from Green Ronin had too many colors/shades in it for it to be useful. The maps, while beautiful, were nearly impossible to photocopy and unless you had some kind of raver glow pen, you couldn't write on them either.

5. Please let me know if there is anything you'd like to see that I haven't mentioned.
One of the few things I did like about Cartographica is that it grouped certain maps of a particular theme together. For your book you might want to have a city/town/village chapter, a building/small locale chapter, a dungeon chapter etc.

Good luck with getting published. If you keep drawing the way you have, I feel certain you'll find success sooner or later. Check Rpg.net for business advice, there are a lot of experienced/cynical/entreprenerial folks over there.

 

[Cthulhu's Librarian]

I really like what you are doing here. These maps are great! Keep them coming!


1) What maps would you want to see?
Caves, dungeons, sewers, villages, cities, large buildings (both fantasy & modern), mountain roads, rivers, towers, industrial complexes.

2) What genre would you want?
Fantasy & Horror mostly, and some historical, especially the old west (ghost towns, mining complexes, villages)

3) How much info do you want?
Label the rooms, and maybe some simple one line adventure ideas. Nothing too complex. The simpler the better. Drop in maps that I can build around work best, I have plenty of other adventures already.

4) Would black and white maps be useful or do you want color?
Black & white, or very light, simple color schemes. Utility of the maps come before anything else. Although they aren't pretty, the maps that TSR used to produce in the 1e adventures (and Goodman Games is now using in their adventures) are great in this regard. Easy to draw out on a battlemat, and easy to understand at a quick glance. I'm not suggesting you get this simple, but thats the kind of utility I like to have. The pretty computer drawn maps that are everywhere these days are really nice to look at, but tend to be difficult to use in everyday gaming situations when I need to access information quickly.


5) Please let me know if there is anything you'd like to see that I haven't mentioned!
As mentioned above, themes of maps grouped together is great. Maps that lead one into the next are also nice, and ways of tying them together is a great feature. A set of caves that can be easily connected to create a system as large or small as needed is great.
For modern settings, one thing that I have not seen yet is a set of maps depicting suburban housing developements. We see lots of shopping malls, governmental buildings, and the like, but rarely do we see the places where people live. I've played in games where we had a chase through backyards and down streets with lots of cul-de-sacs, and having maps of these types of places would have been useful.

 

[Turanil]

What genre would you want?

Personnaly I would be more interested in hand-outs to give to players. As already been said, with no words put on them*, so I add mine that fit my campaign setting. Also, I would like to see maps of small areas, like a local forest, a specific valley, a town / city, a village, an island, etc. That is: anything that I can include in my own already determined / mapped campaign setting.

The fact is, that I always make my own homebrew settings maps, but like most such maps, they describe a whole continent, so it is not detailed. I would have absolutelyno use in getting others such maps. However, I need but have no time to do myself, smaller maps. When smaller maps are drawn like you do, with nice small castles and else, it really helps give a feel of the adventure to the players.

Maps of actual dongeons and castles are much less useful, since I am the only one to see them during the adventure. I want stuff to give to my players, that help them visualize where their characters are.

(* I suppose the book will be a pdf? If so, I would like being able to copypaste the maps into photoshop to add my own names and texts. 150 dpi A4 would be fine, for purpose of printing them.)

If the book is like I ask (at least 50%), I would buy a copy on rpgnow.

 

[Arnwyn]

What maps would you want to see?
Fantasy: cities, large towns, villages, castles, towers, sewers, dungeons, caves.
Futuristic: space stations, orbital habitats, skyscrapers, "capital" ships.

2) What genre would you want?
Mostly fantasy, but a little bit of futuristic/sci-fi would be nice.

3) How much info do you want?
Minimal info. A scale is absolutely critical, as is a basic key. If it's a book of maps, I want maps, not an adventure or even stats.

4) Would black and white maps be useful or do you want color?
Black & white.

5) Please let me know if there is anything you'd like to see that I haven't mentioned!
Please ensure that all interior maps have a grid! I will not consider the use of any map that does not have a grid for an interior location.

 

[Conaill]

5) Please let me know if there is anything you'd like to see that I haven't mentioned!
Please ensure that all interior maps have a grid! I will not consider the use of any map that does not have a grid for an interior location.

And not just any grid!

Any idiot can overlay a grid over an existing map. You're not going to get any points for *that*. But I would expect grids to be lined up with room and corridor walls, and fractional squares to be minimized. In particular, if your building has rooms or corridors that are at an angle with respect to each other, you should use different grid orientations for each. Bonus points for cuved gridlines in curved corridors, and for providing both square and hex grids...

 

[psyekl]

Do the majority of gamers (GMs) consider a grid mandatory? I very rarely include grids with structural drawings because they will rarely line up with the angles and lines of the structures, and I end up with a large number of partial squares that confuse the drawing more than aid with the scale. The only times I find a grid to be truly useful is with drawings depicting large areas or with large-scale drawings for miniatures. In my own games, the scale of the drawing is adequate and grids are never used except on the battle mat.

While I can incorporate a grid it will most likely be done lighter than the drawing to avoid confusing the lines, possibly even in a light blue or green for contrast. But as for expecting grids to be lined up with room and corridor walls and fractional squares to be minimized, I'm afraid with maps drawn for realism, that's not going to be very likely. One of the reasons most role-playing maps are so illogical and "fake" feeling is because they attempt to fit onto a grid, while in real construction that is true only very rarely. When I draw a map, the grid is usually an afterthought and has no bearing on the development of the drawing itself. I do understand the usefulness of the grid for gaming purposes, so if it's deemed necessary I'll definitely put one in as best I can.

 

[Arnwyn]

Do the majority of gamers (GMs) consider a grid mandatory?

You're not going to get an answer, as no market research has been done. However, if you want to see the percentage of GMs who have internet access, visit ENWorld, have registered, read the "Art Gallery, Cartography & Miniatures Painting" forum, and both see and care to read a particular thread, then you could put up a poll to try to determine how some feel about grids on interior maps...

In any case, for me at least, a grid for interior maps is absolutely mandatory. I'll immediately ignore and pass by any interior map that doesn't have a grid (and yes, I do prefer that the grid match up with the walls).

While I can incorporate a grid it will most likely be done lighter than the drawing to avoid confusing the lines, possibly even in a light blue or green for contrast. But as for expecting grids to be lined up with room and corridor walls and fractional squares to be minimized, I'm afraid with maps drawn for realism, that's not going to be very likely. One of the reasons most role-playing maps are so illogical and "fake" feeling is because they attempt to fit onto a grid, while in real construction that is true only very rarely. When I draw a map, the grid is usually an afterthought and has no bearing on the development of the drawing itself. I do understand the usefulness of the grid for gaming purposes, so if it's deemed necessary I'll definitely put one in as best I can.

For me, in a contest between "realism" and utility for GMs, utility will win any day of the week and twice on Sundays. No question. "Realism" (especially for maps in a D&D game) is far overrated. A cost/benefit analysis (extra work for the GM and time lost during the session trying to make use of the map vs. the players actually noticing and caring about the "realism") clearly shows that realism is on the losing end, for me at least.

A grid with lighter lines is exactly the way I like it.

 

[Conaill]

I wouldn't go as far as to say that I would pass up a well done map if it doesn't have a grid. But I do think a well-done grid can provide a lot of added value to a map. On the other hand, a poorly done grid can easily detract from the quality of a map!

But as for expecting grids to be lined up with room and corridor walls and fractional squares to be minimized, I'm afraid with maps drawn for realism, that's not going to be very likely.

Nonsense. Most buildings are largely rectangular, and should fit a grid easily. Heck, I wouldn't mind if you fudged the size of the grid slightly to *make* it fit, although it would be appreciated if you kept roughly 5' increments in mind when doing the layout for the building in the first place. I don't mind if you have various architectural features that don't line up perfectly. I don't mind a 2' wall on a grid line, reducing the adjacent squares to 4'x5'. I DO mind a 2' wall smack in the center of a 5' grid, leaving a 1' sliver on both sides! Pillars can often be moved a few feet to make them fall on the gridlines (or in the center of a square if it's more than 4' wide), etc.

At least for the rectangular sections of the map, there is *no* excuse to not try to line up the grid with the walls. For example, the following map is actually reasonably realistic as D&D maps go, but it drives me absolutely *bonkers* with its total disregard for lining up the grid:

Heck, I don't think there are *any* rooms or corridors on this map that line up with the grid. This one is a great example of a very poorly done grid seriously detracting form the overall quality of the map. The grid here has absolutely *no* purpose that I can think of. You can't even use it to count the size of the rooms, let alone use it as a battle map.

When I draw a map, the grid is usually an afterthought and has no bearing on the development of the drawing itself. I do understand the usefulness of the grid for gaming purposes, so if it's deemed necessary I'll definitely put one in as best I can.

As I mentioned above, keeping a grid in mind during development would be very much appreciated. No reason to have a 47' long hall if you could just as easily have a 45' or 50' long one.

However, putting one in afterwards "as best you can" is already more than can be said from most rpg map designers! But please do take that "as best you can" seriously...