Imagination... [OT???]

[skulrik]

Originally posted by Patrick-S&S
Most great RPGs comes from the US, movies too as well as music.

RPGs ? Surely

Movies ? Maybe

But Music !!! Co'mon !! The USA have the worst music in the world. (And Canada in not far behind ). It's alway the same thing. Hip hop, punk and country. Really no imagination in that.

The best music come from you, European. King Crimson, Genesis, Anekdoten, Landberk (two swedish band), Nightwish, Tool, Cradle of Filth, to name just a few. There a lot more, check around you and listen

 

[Patrick-S&S]

My, my... This post is heading to places where it can not be repaired...

 

[Wicht]

Tolkien, Pratchett, Adams and several other famous authors aren`t American.

Those three are all English. Personally, I prefer many english authors to American authors. I could add Agatha Christie, C.S. Lewis, Dorothy Sayers, Brian Lumley and Ian Fleming to that list.

But a query? Does the average englishman think of himself as Europian? One thing that strikes me about many of the english authors, at least 50-80 years ago was their view of "the continent" as a whole seperate culture.

 

[Tonguez]

One thing that strikes me about many of the english authors, at least 50-80 years ago was their view of "the continent" as a whole seperate culture.

And thats because it is.

Its all because of the French and all those bloody bloody wars - not to mention the Spanish Armada and the well the Ducth!!

Of course we wont mention the fact that the Royals are German nor the Norman conquest.

as for the actual question

America has an edge on MARKETING of imagination. It is the land of Consumerism where anything can be sold because people will buy anything thats MARKETED to them. The fact that English is the 'language' of commerce gives US an advantage too (I've seen some beautiful looking French RPGs but can't speak french) NB the English don't have this advantage because they don't have the Consumerite ethos.

Personally I'd say English/European for quality and US for quantity/candy

A selection
Books - English writers win hands down (Pratchett, Adams, Lewis etc)
Movies - Seen some great French movies (but again language barrier means mainly enlish-language offerings). Favourite movies are European (Cyrano De Begerac, My Beautiful Laundrette)
TV - also preferred English comedy and soaps to US (except for Sledgehammer which was great) and prefer BBC to CNN.
RPGs - as above D20 and GURPS

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Perhaps it has a lot to do with culture. Americans tend to value a certain rugged type of individual that is willing to take risks and strike out boldly in new directions, alone if need be, for what he thinks is right. You could call it a cowboy mentality. Europians seem to think, for instance, that calling President Bush a cowboy is an insult and a slap at his character (at least that is what I have seen reported in the news lately). As an american, born in Texas, raised with the desire as a small lad to be a cowboy, the idea that being called a cowboy would be an insult seems to me strange to say the least, I view it as a compliment. IMO the idea of the cowboy, the rugged adventurer and the staunch exploration of the unknown is perhaps the key to american imagination

This is an excellent point. I've never quite understood how "cowboy" can be used as such a negative. If anything, cowboys are American versions of knights - a lone horseman, equipped for war, riding about the land righting wrongs (or at least that's how cowboys have been portrayed in movies and literature for more than a century). Of course, Native Americans may have a different view of them (and deservedly so), but I would imagine soldiers would be a lot more negative for them (but, if we're lucky, a Native American poster will show up to set me straight). Still, why cowboys are seen so negatively in Europe and beyond is puzzling to me.

 

[Weeble]

Well, part of the "problem" with Europeans (yes, this is a broad sweeping stereotypical statement-as was the poster's) is that they may see things, events, history, the future, etc. in terms of reality. They may be more concerned with what is to come than worrying about where their next paycheck comes from, or when their botox appointment is, or how they can take out their day full of stress dealing with rude people in their car on the way home.
Some elite americans (another broad statement) love to escape the day to day grewl that most other americans cannot. With a high divorce rate, high amount of drugs, high amount of obesity, large amount of PS2s, and a centristic point of view personally and of the world, americans are a special breed of recourse-stealing, planet-killing fools!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Just kiddin

 

[ColonelHardisson]

The rise of science fiction probably directly impacts upon the original poster's query.

Science fiction as a genre was really first identified and codified in the US, in the pulps. It slowly grew throughout the 20s and 30s, with very little expansion overseas - as the genre we know today (and I put it that way to avoid the argument about SF provenance - what we know today as SF really became a separate and distinct genre almost as a direct result of Hugo Gernsback's efforts here in the US). World War II left the US as the only heavily industrialized, densely populated nation untouched by the destruction, allowing SF to grow and the US to dominate it. To be honest, the rest of the world has been playing catch-up ever since. Not that there hasn't been good, solid non-US SF in the last 30 years or so, but I think you can understand what I mean.

Motion pictures are also dominated by the US due not only to the way studio chiefs competed with overseas competition almost to the extinction of non-US film industries in the 1920s, but also due to World War II also. Hollywood was really the only major source for movies during the war, and it's never lost that dominance (although it could if the film and TV industry continues its migration outside the US).

Put these two factors together, and you can begin to see why it might seem the US dominates in the SF and fantasy genres. That doesn't mean there isn't good SF&F outside the US; it just means there are fewer venues for it. That has been steadily changing, and will continue to do so.

 

[Lizard]

Two main reasons:

Multiculturalism: The myths and legends of dozens of different cultures all get blended together as wave after wave of immigrants arrive.

Mythmaking as industry: Hollywood is big business, and even entertainment not directly related to fiction (the music biz, for example) tends to sell itself by selling stories -- the backgrounds of artists are 'enhanced' for purposes of publicity.

 

[jester47]

Wow, this post hits close to home. See, I am almost technically Swedish. My mother's side can claim citizenship all the way up to me (I can't, and I think I am a little too American). This explains why (at least in my mind) I love Ingmar Bergman flicks, can easily find my way around an IKEA store, and really do love meatballs. Also I am a really messy cook (Bork Bork Bork!!).

Anyways, I digress. I think there are several reasons we seem more imaginative. The first is population. We have provinces (called states) the size of countries. We are a whole magnitude bigger. There is no such thing as American Culture. Our "Culture" is a salad/soup made up of the cultures of the world. That is the reason we kick so much butt. We have huge chuncks of africa and europe and asia and india in our culture. We come from desert nomads and warriors who chased buffalo. We share the Blood of Ghengis Kahn, Alexander the Great, and Caesar Augustus. We are the place where all the cultures of the world are meeting, and so among the population we have someone that understands your country and culture, no matter where you come from. We are Vikings and Samauri. We have deserts, plains, lush forests, rolling hills, vast swamps, and enough scenery to inspire epic novels for the next thousand years.

Europeans on the other hand have small countries, and smaller populations than the US. These countries have pretty much one culture. Patrick said it himself, he can CROSS A BRIDGE and be in another country. For me to be in another country, I have to drive about 4 hours. And thats because I am on the edge of this one. Most northern europeans can drive to Italy in a day. I have to drive for three days to get to mexico. Less people means less folks to write cool ficiton and make cool movies. I mean what great sci-fi/fantasy has come out of Guam?

But do not sell sweden, or europe for that matter short. You have the scenery, real castles and the history. You guys (not counting england) have some great fantasy and science fiction writers and film makers. First, the seventh seal. Ingmar Bergman. Sweedish. Second Fritz Lang, awesome director and writer. Influenced tons of people with Metropolis. Not to mention Jules Vern. French, broke more ground than H.G. Wells. Europe is creative, europe does write awesome fantasy. Don't forget about Michael Ende's Neverending Story (It took the americans to butcher that into a movie). Amazing stuff is comming out of spain and portrugal. One of the coolest Fantasy movies I have seen recently is Le Pacte des Loups. Sure it has a lot of history in it, but if that guy ever decides to do a pure fantasy movie, he will kick ass.

But I need to make somthing clear. It does not matter where you come from, or what you see. Imagination is some powerful stuff. The best example is Robert E. Howard. He never really left the part of Texas where he grew up. Yet he influenced Tolkein, Lovecraft, Lewis, (all those english guys) Leiber and almost everyone writing fantasy today. So it really does not matter where you come from, just as long as you fight to get it out there. Its not cultural. Its just the numbers.

Aaron Webb

 

[Patrick-S&S]

One of the coolest Fantasy movies I have seen recently is Le Pacte des Loups. Sure it has a lot of history in it, but if that guy ever decides to do a pure fantasy movie, he will kick ass.

Now this is one oustanding movie. I have seldom been so impressed with a scenery such as this. For those who hasn't seen it you can cross Matrix and Rob Roy with a touch of dark stuff seen in the Lord of the Rings. It is frikkin' awesome in what it does. More of these movies would be appriciated. Other than that I agree with Aaron's post almost to a 100%.