Imagination... [OT???]

[LcKedovan]

This is an excellent point. I've never quite understood how "cowboy" can be used as such a negative. If anything, cowboys are American versions of knights - a lone horseman, equipped for war, riding about the land righting wrongs (or at least that's how cowboys have been portrayed in movies and literature for more than a century). Of course, Native Americans may have a different view of them (and deservedly so), but I would imagine soldiers would be a lot more negative for them (but, if we're lucky, a Native American poster will show up to set me straight). Still, why cowboys are seen so negatively in Europe and beyond is puzzling to me.

Just to maybe clear up this "aspect" of the thread, it's not cowboys that are seen negatively. It is a case from the cold war (or earlier?) where "cowboy diplomacy" was termed. It is not a view on actual cowboys, but if someone is a "cowboy" in this sense it means they are more likely to reach for their gun than solve the problem diplomatically ala. the wild west.

-Will

 

[cybernetic]

But Music !!! Co'mon !! The USA have the worst music in the world. (And Canada in not far behind ). It's alway the same thing. Hip hop, punk and country. Really no imagination in that.

The best music come from you, European. King Crimson, Genesis, Anekdoten, Landberk (two swedish band), Nightwish, Tool, Cradle of Filth, to name just a few. There a lot more, check around you and listen

First off...Hip Hop, Punk, and Country are not the only music from the USA..... The evolution of Metal and heavy music in general happend here in the USA..... (though i agree wholly on Punk taking no imagination...and I don't exactly like country either)

Second, Tool is an American band....they met and formed in L.A....not to mention Adam Jones, their guitarist, used to be a special effects artist..(he did work on terminator 2 for instance)...the only one not originally from america is their bassist.
(Personally I wouldn't consider Cradle of Filth to be good music..but thats just IMHO...and everone is free to like whatever they want to...)

The one thing I do really give props to Europeans is their electronic music...its always the best!

.........and the rant ends..........

 

[LcKedovan]

First off...Hip Hop, Punk, and Country are not the only music from the USA..... The evolution of Metal and heavy music in general happend here in the USA..... (though i agree wholly on Punk taking no imagination...and I don't exactly like country either)

Second, Tool is an American band....they met and formed in L.A....not to mention Adam Jones, their guitarist, used to be a special effects artist..(he did work on terminator 2 for instance)...the only one not originally from america is their bassist.
(Personally I wouldn't consider Cradle of Filth to be good music..but thats just IMHO...and everone is free to like whatever they want to...)

The one thing I do really give props to Europeans is their electronic music...its always the best!

.........and the rant ends..........

Punk is English Country music has it's roots in celtic folk and other such music. I'd say Heavy Metal progression, at least in the 80s was split evenly between Europe and the US (See Iron Maiden for example). As for someone's comment on Canadian Music, some of the best Industrial music comes from Canada... or used to.. of course with Kraftwerk being the fathers of Electronic music (with hip hop/rap artists also very often citing Kraftwerk as a huge influence) I have to agree that the best electronic comes from Europe generally.

-Will

 

[Pigeon]

In Nomine was french orrignally, before it got adapted by SJG. Games workshop (winner of "the most irritating shop assistants award for 3 years in a row") is English.

In the world of comics the majority of the respected guys (rightly or wrongly) are english - Gaiman, Moore, Ennis, Morrison et al.

However America as people have already pointed out is more geared towards marketing and exporting their culture. Plus, you are just plain bigger - I was thinking the other day about how many olimpic medals the USA would win if they were forced to split up into states. Maybe that's the only way to beat you swine!

I don't personnaly see a problem in a lot of the stuff I'm interested in being American - as long as they produce guys like Michal Moore I'll put up with the Gwenith Paltrows

 

[Reprisal]

Patrick-S&S:

Hehe, no problem man, I know it's not exactly a Europe v. Colonies ( ) thing, but I just thought I'd say what I heard, hehe.

Still, Canada not far behind? Nickelback, Our Lady Peace, Matt Good, The HIP, Swollen Members, Holly McNarland, Bif Naked... It's not all about Toronto Hip-Hop, hehe.

Europe does have some kick-ass music though, especially Britain.

 

[jester47]

We don't market our culture, we market everyone elses...

AW

 

[Darkness]

... a good industry for selling their imaginations. (Most important one probably being hollywood).

...

Hollywood and imagination tend to be mutually exclusive.

Not that they don't produce some cool stuff but it's not exactly imaginative...

 

[skulrik]

Originally posted bu cybernetic
First off...Hip Hop, Punk, and Country are not the only music from the USA..... The evolution of Metal and heavy music in general happend here in the USA..... (though i agree wholly on Punk taking no imagination...and I don't exactly like country either)

Second, Tool is an American band....they met and formed in L.A....not to mention Adam Jones, their guitarist, used to be a special effects artist..(he did work on terminator 2 for instance)...the only one not originally from america is their bassist.
(Personally I wouldn't consider Cradle of Filth to be good music..but thats just IMHO...and everone is free to like whatever they want to...)

The one thing I do really give props to Europeans is their electronic music...its always the best!

.........and the rant ends..........

Thank you for the information on Tool. It's good to know that there's hope for the music in America

IMHO, Europeans are the #1 in music in all the style. It's seem to me that they do music because they love it. In America, a band make a good song (or more accurate: they made a bad song that people like), they make a lot of money, and they disapear a few time after. The disk company dont support their artist. They have become "one use and trash" artist.

And for the Electronic music, for me, it's just crap. But like you said, everyone is free to like whatever they want to... ) It's why music is so beautiful.

European make music, that no one can even dream that a thing like that can exists !! That is IMAGINATION

 

[Krug]

Imagination isn't limited by country, but I think in America there's more opportunity to express it. IE: Peter Jackson, a New Zealand director, uses US funds to make LotR which, of course, is based on books by a Brit writer.

 

[Krug]

This is an excellent point. I've never quite understood how "cowboy" can be used as such a negative. If anything, cowboys are American versions of knights - a lone horseman, equipped for war, riding about the land righting wrongs (or at least that's how cowboys have been portrayed in movies and literature for more than a century). Of course, Native Americans may have a different view of them (and deservedly so), but I would imagine soldiers would be a lot more negative for them (but, if we're lucky, a Native American poster will show up to set me straight). Still, why cowboys are seen so negatively in Europe and beyond is puzzling to me.

Cowboys and knights... I've never thought that they fit. In westerns, the theme is always about civilization vs the wilderness. Knights are chivalrous soldiers who preserve the civilization of the time while cowboys (at least in cinema) would be more akin to rangers/lone wolf types, acting on their own accord (see The Searchers).