imagination vs battlemat

[Aristotle]

I voted "at all times", but in non combat situation it is only used to give a basic visual explanation of how much room the characters have to work with in case combat does break out.

I have multiple mats that I use for virtually every game I play (whether the game is set up to make use of minis and mats or not). I feel that the mat speeds up combat (no need to repeat where everyone is 5 times a round or arguments about how close a character is to another character). I just describe the scene and then place the minis. From there the combat ensues and people can see where everything is. It keeps everyone honest.

As far as metagame thinking. Huh? Its metagame for someone playing a character who is supposed to be a heroic fighter to think tactically? Since when? Of course the player will move to avoid attacks of oportunity, to keep from getting flanked, or to otherwise place themselves in a tactical advantage. A character would probably know a good bit of this stuff and would do the same.

I ran another game, which isn't really set up for mat and mini play, for some friends and they complained at how they went down so quickly. I got a mat and some minis out and they suddenly started to take better advantage of cover, moving to avoid being hit, and generally acting like the combat oriented characters they were supposed to be. While the game was still a challenge, the characters faired much better. That is all the proof I need that a mat and counters/minis enhance the combat side of the role playing experience.

 

[Zappo]

"imagination vs battlemat"? They don't have to be opposed, you know. I use a battlemat for all combats save plain 1 vs 1, and I also use it to sketch large-scale maps of cities, buildings, whatever, even if they are not to be used for combat. I find that it actually helps roleplaying. Remember, these games aren't only about imagination; they are about shared imagination.

When everyone has a clear picture of what's going on around them, they understand each other better, waste less time clearing up misunderstandings, and visualize the same world. They are in the same world. That's an important part of a good roleplaying session. Conflicting depictions of the scene, as good as they may be individually, are less exciting than a good coherent situation.

 

[Zappo]

I Have Been Playing Rpgs Since 2nd Ed Dnd And For Most Games We Have Used Battle Mats
When We Are Roleplaying Our Figure Sit On The Mat And Nobody Touches Them But With Combat In All Rpgs You Need Battle Mats Because It Gets Confusing Even With Vampire We Have Used The Battle Mats
Has any one used the whiteboard connectable mats that are advertised in dragon
GFL Out (GAMER FOR LIFE)

I know I shouldn't, but I just must ask. Why spending time capitalizing every word, but not doing punctuation? I'm honestly curious, it's too weird.

 

[Numion]

I never use battlemap or minis. In 15+ years of roleplaying I've never even tried them, so it's hard to say if they would help me or not

 

[random user]

As far as metagame thinking. Huh? Its metagame for someone playing a character who is supposed to be a heroic fighter to think tactically? Since when? Of course the player will move to avoid attacks of oportunity, to keep from getting flanked, or to otherwise place themselves in a tactical advantage. A character would probably know a good bit of this stuff and would do the same.

I 100% agree with this. Don't shortchange your characters. Your characters (beyond 1st or 2nd level at least) live and die (literally!) by combat. Unless you are playing in an entirely story based campaign (in which case, ignore this), any mid-level or higher adventurer is going to have seen a lot of combat.

I believe that the square-counting etc that happens when the *player* needs to figure out what is going on is automatically calculated by the *character*. If that is the case, is it more out of character to play the character as less than competent or to take the time to try and ensure he acts well? Now, for those who say that the counting is disruptive, I agree with you there, but see below.

Take something in real life. If I'm driving and the light turns yellow, I often don't know exactly how fast I'm going (if I haven't looked at the speedometer at least), nor do I know the exact distance between me and the yellow light. Nor do I know how long the light will stay yellow. Yet, almost always, I will know whether or not I can make that light, as well as whether I need to shift gears or not.

If I'm on the freeway and I'm going faster than someone else, and the left lane is ending ahead (or perhaps there is another car there), I don't know what speed the other cars are going, nor do I know my exact distance between any of the points, yet almost always I will know if I have enough time to pass the car or not.

And while I consider myself a good driver, I'm certainly not a professional.

In the same vein, I imagine the fighter eyeballs the distance and says, "I bet I can get a swing at this guy if I charge him." The rogue eyeballs the scene and says, "I bet if I scamper and tumble near the bad guy I can get to the opposite side of him and get a better shot at him." They don't know that the bad guy is within 30' or whatever, but their years of training provides them the ability to figure it out subconsciously.

The problem, I think, comes because the player can't process what the character knows instinctively. That's where the square counting and thinking about it like a chess game comes in. However, I think that as a *player* levels in combat, this problem comes into play less and less, and eventually isn't really a problem.

It's those painful early levels of *player* combat that disrupt the flow of the game. And two solutions are to avoid it completely (a la not using a battlemat) or to practice enough (ie gain a couple levels) such that the player reacts quickly enough that it doesn't disrupt the flow.

I'm sure there are other solutions, that's just my 2 cp.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

I Have Been Playing Rpgs Since 2nd Ed Dnd And For Most Games We Have Used Battle Mats
When We Are Roleplaying Our Figure Sit On The Mat And Nobody Touches Them But With Combat In All Rpgs You Need Battle Mats Because It Gets Confusing Even With Vampire We Have Used The Battle Mats
Has any one used the whiteboard connectable mats that are advertised in dragon
GFL Out (GAMER FOR LIFE)

My eyes! They bleed!

 

[Ibram]

Like most other posters I use the battlemat for large scale combat, otherwise I would have trouble keeping track of where everyone is.

Some sessions I use the battlemat quite extensilvly, while other times I never touch it.

 

[the Jester]

Often in dungeons; almost always in combat; sometimes for sketching overall maps (i.e. of a town).

 

[MacMathan]

Wow I guess we have always used some form of visual. Even in 1e we used graph paper for mapping and then could show where are characters were.

In 2e we finally decided to use those minis we had been painting and then the combat and tactics options book came out and we moved to battlemats for good.

3e+ has just continued the trend for us.

In games without it I find combat is either 1) more simplified in tactics, terrain and numbers of opponents or 2) very confusing and takes a long time for everyone to understand what is really going on.

 

[Herpes Cineplex]

Never. We don't have a battlemat or minis, and the most we'll ever do is ask for a Cheesy GM Map, which is a very roughly scrawled diagram on a piece of notebook paper that we can look at. This is true in every system we play, not just D&D.

I can see some circumstances where having a mat would help, but not enough to justify all the other changes we'd have to make in our playing style to make the best use of it.

Right now, everything works pretty well for us. We can go through a combat round very quickly and easily, everyone can find a place in the living room where they're comfortable (rather than jamming ourselves in around a table), there's no erasing or drawing or redrawing to deal with, and the few times someone says "wait...so where is he?" are dealt with in under ten seconds.

When that changes, maybe we'll look into getting a mat.

--
of course, it's probably never going to change
ryan