imagination vs battlemat
- Thread starter Evilhalfling
- Start date
milotha
First Post
We've done the following for all editions.
Sometimes for complex dungeons we will draw the dungeon out in a smaller scale than 5' squares. Then we will have a single die or miniature represent the general location of the party, unless we split up. When it comes time for combat, the room will be drawn out in 5' scale and we will use miniatures.
In the earlier editions this helped clarify area of effects for spells, who was nearby to heal someone, and other movement based tactics. The same is true for later editions.
In 3.X, we found that battle maps were essential for allowing players to fully utilize the system. The battlemat is ingrained into the system due to attacks of opportunity, threat ranges, different movement speeds for characters, spell ranges, area of effects, cover, bull rushing, point blank shot, precise shot, cleave, trip, etc. If you drop it, you are removing character abilities.
As for the map instilling metagame tactics, is that such a bad thing? It is a game after all. What's wrong with playing all aspects of it. The appearance of a battlemat doesn't preclude role playing.
As for mages and clerics counting out squares to fully utilize their spells, we are talking about characters with 20 ints/ 20 wisdoms. These people aren't dummies. Of course you are going to place something to have the maximum beneficial effect. If you cast spells all the time, you would proabably become a good judge of distance. Besides, it's feakin magic. Whose to say that the actual casting of the spell doesn't help convey a sense of distance and a sense of the area it will effect. I've never seen anyone say, gee your fighter misjudged the distance between him and the monster, so he missed it.
Lastly, failing to use a battlemat can cause metagaming tactics too. First, you get the I'm nowhere in specific character. We've all seen those characters that never seem to be anywhere when something bad happens, yet are right near the monster when it is time to attack. Next, you get the no matter where you are, you got hit by the monster or spell GMs. Plus, you can get the super effective characters. I drop my spell X and it effects all the monsters and none of the players.
Sometimes for complex dungeons we will draw the dungeon out in a smaller scale than 5' squares. Then we will have a single die or miniature represent the general location of the party, unless we split up. When it comes time for combat, the room will be drawn out in 5' scale and we will use miniatures.
In the earlier editions this helped clarify area of effects for spells, who was nearby to heal someone, and other movement based tactics. The same is true for later editions.
In 3.X, we found that battle maps were essential for allowing players to fully utilize the system. The battlemat is ingrained into the system due to attacks of opportunity, threat ranges, different movement speeds for characters, spell ranges, area of effects, cover, bull rushing, point blank shot, precise shot, cleave, trip, etc. If you drop it, you are removing character abilities.
As for the map instilling metagame tactics, is that such a bad thing? It is a game after all. What's wrong with playing all aspects of it. The appearance of a battlemat doesn't preclude role playing.
As for mages and clerics counting out squares to fully utilize their spells, we are talking about characters with 20 ints/ 20 wisdoms. These people aren't dummies. Of course you are going to place something to have the maximum beneficial effect. If you cast spells all the time, you would proabably become a good judge of distance. Besides, it's feakin magic. Whose to say that the actual casting of the spell doesn't help convey a sense of distance and a sense of the area it will effect. I've never seen anyone say, gee your fighter misjudged the distance between him and the monster, so he missed it.
Lastly, failing to use a battlemat can cause metagaming tactics too. First, you get the I'm nowhere in specific character. We've all seen those characters that never seem to be anywhere when something bad happens, yet are right near the monster when it is time to attack. Next, you get the no matter where you are, you got hit by the monster or spell GMs. Plus, you can get the super effective characters. I drop my spell X and it effects all the monsters and none of the players.
ichabod
Legned
INHO & IME I believe that roleplaying DOES detract from the battlemat experience. I've found that using roleplaying turns the game into an acting workshop. The players start using accents to ensure that they aren't understandable when they speak and to barb their witicisms for maximum annoyance. Don't get me wrong, acting is fun... I auditioned for movies for a good long time (until I could no longer afford it) but when I play/run D&D I want a roleplaying game. Recently I've quit letting my players talk and instead use military sign language to just get a quick idea of the actions they are taking. I just use my own judgement on how far someone could get into a character's personality. It isn't melodramatic or wooden but I've found that my game benefits from it.
robberbaron
First Post
Sure, pushing figures around can slow combat a little compared to just "imagining it", but it also avoids the "I thought you were over there fighting the Troll, not rummaging in the chest?" issues.
Don't see how you can run a 3.0/3.5 combat without markers and a grid, unless you ignore AoO.
Don't see how you can run a 3.0/3.5 combat without markers and a grid, unless you ignore AoO.
From my experience, a battle mat makes it easier to pay attention.
I just played a 9 hour game with my friends from up north. Our combats took forever. A. we were tired. B. every round, each player asked the DM for an update of the fight. Where were the bad guys, etc.
Had there been a battlemat, my sleepy friends and I could have looked at the mat, scene the bad guys next to our characters, made our rolls, and gone back to sleep.
The short of it, I can look at the mat, see what I need to know, make my rolls and be done. That's less time spent for me, making combat go faster for everyone. Newbies wil have to count squares. Experienced players will generally know what they're doing and like all games, it will go faster.
As someone else pointed out, fighters DO figure out AoO's and the like. I'm a real martial artist. I really do know how far you are away from me, what's behind you, and whether or not I can move to a new position and force you into a corner. One could argue that every character should be taking a 5 foot step every round and not doing so would be a disadvantage.
Now I have run and played D&D for years without a battlemat. It worked out fine. But since I started using a battlemat, it has been easier to run a combat. And that's worth something.
Janx
I just played a 9 hour game with my friends from up north. Our combats took forever. A. we were tired. B. every round, each player asked the DM for an update of the fight. Where were the bad guys, etc.
Had there been a battlemat, my sleepy friends and I could have looked at the mat, scene the bad guys next to our characters, made our rolls, and gone back to sleep.
The short of it, I can look at the mat, see what I need to know, make my rolls and be done. That's less time spent for me, making combat go faster for everyone. Newbies wil have to count squares. Experienced players will generally know what they're doing and like all games, it will go faster.
As someone else pointed out, fighters DO figure out AoO's and the like. I'm a real martial artist. I really do know how far you are away from me, what's behind you, and whether or not I can move to a new position and force you into a corner. One could argue that every character should be taking a 5 foot step every round and not doing so would be a disadvantage.
Now I have run and played D&D for years without a battlemat. It worked out fine. But since I started using a battlemat, it has been easier to run a combat. And that's worth something.
Janx
Darmanicus
I'm Ray...of Enfeeblement
Calico_Jack73 said:
I personally like to use a battlemat, (it gives me the chance to use lots of cool painted miniatures), and I don't think it detracts from the game. Re players, (me included), counting squares in order to maximize effect, well you'd use the real situation as it happened to maximize stuff so no real difference there.
Our DM now uses his PC rather than tabletop as a medium and we feel it's sped things up as the PCs can keep track of initiative, spell durations etc without us having to.
On another note, I too stopped playing GW stuff because of the cost but I won't start bitchin' about that now!
Deadguy
First Post
Janx said:
I must say, Janx, this story is familiar. Indeed any time there are distractions I find the mat helps keep the DM's descriptions in mind.
Oh, and of course, when someone pops out of the room to use the bathroom, they don't need a long fresh description of the current situation when they get back!
One point I spotted earlier from Ashrem Bayle was happily using Tact Tiles for one game (how good are they?), but not using for the Midnight game. I wondered what prompted you to feel that it's okay to use a representation when playing one game and not another?
TheAuldGrump
First Post
Unless the combat is ridiculously easy I haul out a map and minis. I use inches rather than squares, prefering 3.0 to 3.5 in that regard, using the squares to block out where things are and using a ruler for movement etc.
Sometimes just hauling out the mat can make a difference. And when a chest is being opened I ask folks to place their figures. (I have also had experiences with the Incredible Teleporting Character who is able to be the first one grabbing the stuff folowing opening the chest and across the room when the trap goes off...)
If I am running some of the adventures I created in the eighties I haul out the scale maps I made way back when, so sometimes I do use a battlemat all the time. Having maps and minis means being able to leave the table and come back without forgetting where everything is.
The Auld Grump
Sometimes just hauling out the mat can make a difference. And when a chest is being opened I ask folks to place their figures. (I have also had experiences with the Incredible Teleporting Character who is able to be the first one grabbing the stuff folowing opening the chest and across the room when the trap goes off...)
If I am running some of the adventures I created in the eighties I haul out the scale maps I made way back when, so sometimes I do use a battlemat all the time. Having maps and minis means being able to leave the table and come back without forgetting where everything is.
The Auld Grump
MerakSpielman
First Post
Using a battlemat at ALL times seems a bit obtuse. Maybe I just run games with different levels of combat than most people, but mapping out every dungeon on a mat - even if I had those fancy interlocking ones - seems like a waste of time when fighting doesn't take place in every room. I also don't run really big dungeons - most are limited to 10 rooms (each room has a distinct purpose. More than this and it starts to get repetitive).
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