i was just thinking about the class balance issues people have, and this dovetails with the "something missing from 4e" threads.
i think in smushing together the classes in 4e, giving non clerics the ability to heal themselves, and all classes some form of spell-like ability, what you lose is class IMBALANCE.
i think class imbalance is a good thing. i dont mean that in terms of power, as in "any 18th level wizard can kick any 18th level thief's ass." i dont mean it in terms of roles like controller, defender, leg humper, etc.
what i mean can best be described by looking back at where the game came from. war gaming. war gamers had various types of units, some magic wielding, some sword wielding, some healing wielding, some stealth wielding. a guy said "hey what if we broke this down into individuals, instead of individual units, and had them do some of the stuff we read about in fantasy books like fritz leiber's stuff."
D&D was born.
class balance wasn't intended, and COMBAT WASNT THE FOCUS AROUND WHICH EVERY RULE REVOLVED. there were no hard feelings if someone did more damage per round. no one cried. and because it wasnt all about combat, every character through his class got to express his usefulness through his actions, and felt like he contributed at the end of the day.
each person in the group had different skills and a different use, a different role to play, and all did their share to contribute to the overall goal. a thief knew he was a thief, and he did thieving type stuff. that was his part. a cleric knew his role was to heal up his comrades and help protect them from really really scary evil crap. a wizard was a master of mysteries (who easily got his ass kicked unless protected by the fighters) who could solve problems with spells. the fighters valiantly fought in the front lines, protecting and slaying for his cause.
you could compare it to a plumber, a carpenter, and an electrician all getting together to build a house. does a plumber whine because he cant frame a wall? does the electrician whine because he cant weld copper piping? no. they all have their role to play. and at the end of the day they build a house.
the real problem with 4e in my opinion is the total focus on combat abilities and skills. the 4e books are written like the ruleset to a computer game that rogrammers to use to write the combat code of a mmorpg. its as if the dm doesnt exist. creativity on the players and dm's part is either assumed not to exist or ruled out. for example, look how they nerfed all creative spell use during combat through rituals and taking away so many traditional spells. everything now revolves around damage dealt during the almighty combat round, and by god everyone had better do the same amount of damage every round, because we dont want people whining. heavens forbid!
i think this goes back to the new audience they are trying to get. kids. (defined by me for purposes of my unexpectedly ever expanding rant as under 25.)
kids dont play aynmore like they used to. i dont mean in dnd terms. i mean in kids terms. kids have organized activities now that they are taken to by their parents, until it gets to the point where every spare minute of a kid's day is spent in some "structured activity." unless of course they are playing some computer game, or siting their lazy butts in front of a tv.
they dont just go out in the yard and have the other 8 neighborhood kids come over and to get together and create an imaginative game based on the sticks and dirt you find in a yard---for an entire weekend. of course, when i was a kid you also didnt have random child abusers abducting kids in every neighborhood, and you had the mother's network of moms at home to keep an eye on the kids play no matter which yard they were in. the neighborhood mothers knew that as long as their kids were in so-and-so's yard, their kids were ok. that mother was home, cooking dinner, and keeping an eye on the kids from the kitchen window. and if a kid fell out of a tree or got in a fight with another kid, there wasnt a lawsuit---the mother on duty cleaned the kids up, yelled at one or both of them, and sent them back out to play as friends, maybe with a bandaid or two.
i think there is something very important missing from a kid's life when kids from an early age dont just go out and run wild in the yards of the neighborhood all day and "make believe." play superfriends, play planet of the apes, play cowboys and indians, play godzilla vs. king kong vs. rodan vs. the smog monster. ALL DAY LONG.
instead kids play stupid mind numbing video games which give them powerful thumb muscles and a 10 second attention span. a whole different part of the brain is being used. kids dont make use of the imagination like they used to. hence they have no idea what to do if they dont like particular rules, like in dnd for example. "oh my god scry/buff/teleport/disjunction ruins all of dnd!!! its unplayable!! please oh please put out a whole new edition that tells me what to do!!" how about thinking for yourself, using your IMAGINATION and changing the rules you dont like for god's sake? a three sentence house rule fixes that problem. if the kids had ever played with other kids in an empty yard, with very few toys, at age 6, all day, with other neighborhood friends, they would have come up with that little solution on their own.
it's sad actually, because this goes along with what's wrong with society in a lot of ways. without imagination, you can't foresee other options in your life, and there is less hope, less new ideas, less people willing to break the rules in order to make their imaginative vision of their world, and the world they live in, come true. lack of imagination breeds conformity and a society broken in spirit, not believing there are any options left in their lives. so they go to work at walmart and live in fear of starting a union to get more money and benefits, or else they might be fired.
who would have thought not playing superfriends in the backyard could lead to both the downfall of the country, and to the totally sucky fourth edition of dungeons and dragons?
joe
i think in smushing together the classes in 4e, giving non clerics the ability to heal themselves, and all classes some form of spell-like ability, what you lose is class IMBALANCE.
i think class imbalance is a good thing. i dont mean that in terms of power, as in "any 18th level wizard can kick any 18th level thief's ass." i dont mean it in terms of roles like controller, defender, leg humper, etc.
what i mean can best be described by looking back at where the game came from. war gaming. war gamers had various types of units, some magic wielding, some sword wielding, some healing wielding, some stealth wielding. a guy said "hey what if we broke this down into individuals, instead of individual units, and had them do some of the stuff we read about in fantasy books like fritz leiber's stuff."
D&D was born.
class balance wasn't intended, and COMBAT WASNT THE FOCUS AROUND WHICH EVERY RULE REVOLVED. there were no hard feelings if someone did more damage per round. no one cried. and because it wasnt all about combat, every character through his class got to express his usefulness through his actions, and felt like he contributed at the end of the day.
each person in the group had different skills and a different use, a different role to play, and all did their share to contribute to the overall goal. a thief knew he was a thief, and he did thieving type stuff. that was his part. a cleric knew his role was to heal up his comrades and help protect them from really really scary evil crap. a wizard was a master of mysteries (who easily got his ass kicked unless protected by the fighters) who could solve problems with spells. the fighters valiantly fought in the front lines, protecting and slaying for his cause.
you could compare it to a plumber, a carpenter, and an electrician all getting together to build a house. does a plumber whine because he cant frame a wall? does the electrician whine because he cant weld copper piping? no. they all have their role to play. and at the end of the day they build a house.
the real problem with 4e in my opinion is the total focus on combat abilities and skills. the 4e books are written like the ruleset to a computer game that rogrammers to use to write the combat code of a mmorpg. its as if the dm doesnt exist. creativity on the players and dm's part is either assumed not to exist or ruled out. for example, look how they nerfed all creative spell use during combat through rituals and taking away so many traditional spells. everything now revolves around damage dealt during the almighty combat round, and by god everyone had better do the same amount of damage every round, because we dont want people whining. heavens forbid!
i think this goes back to the new audience they are trying to get. kids. (defined by me for purposes of my unexpectedly ever expanding rant as under 25.)
kids dont play aynmore like they used to. i dont mean in dnd terms. i mean in kids terms. kids have organized activities now that they are taken to by their parents, until it gets to the point where every spare minute of a kid's day is spent in some "structured activity." unless of course they are playing some computer game, or siting their lazy butts in front of a tv.
they dont just go out in the yard and have the other 8 neighborhood kids come over and to get together and create an imaginative game based on the sticks and dirt you find in a yard---for an entire weekend. of course, when i was a kid you also didnt have random child abusers abducting kids in every neighborhood, and you had the mother's network of moms at home to keep an eye on the kids play no matter which yard they were in. the neighborhood mothers knew that as long as their kids were in so-and-so's yard, their kids were ok. that mother was home, cooking dinner, and keeping an eye on the kids from the kitchen window. and if a kid fell out of a tree or got in a fight with another kid, there wasnt a lawsuit---the mother on duty cleaned the kids up, yelled at one or both of them, and sent them back out to play as friends, maybe with a bandaid or two.
i think there is something very important missing from a kid's life when kids from an early age dont just go out and run wild in the yards of the neighborhood all day and "make believe." play superfriends, play planet of the apes, play cowboys and indians, play godzilla vs. king kong vs. rodan vs. the smog monster. ALL DAY LONG.
instead kids play stupid mind numbing video games which give them powerful thumb muscles and a 10 second attention span. a whole different part of the brain is being used. kids dont make use of the imagination like they used to. hence they have no idea what to do if they dont like particular rules, like in dnd for example. "oh my god scry/buff/teleport/disjunction ruins all of dnd!!! its unplayable!! please oh please put out a whole new edition that tells me what to do!!" how about thinking for yourself, using your IMAGINATION and changing the rules you dont like for god's sake? a three sentence house rule fixes that problem. if the kids had ever played with other kids in an empty yard, with very few toys, at age 6, all day, with other neighborhood friends, they would have come up with that little solution on their own.
it's sad actually, because this goes along with what's wrong with society in a lot of ways. without imagination, you can't foresee other options in your life, and there is less hope, less new ideas, less people willing to break the rules in order to make their imaginative vision of their world, and the world they live in, come true. lack of imagination breeds conformity and a society broken in spirit, not believing there are any options left in their lives. so they go to work at walmart and live in fear of starting a union to get more money and benefits, or else they might be fired.
who would have thought not playing superfriends in the backyard could lead to both the downfall of the country, and to the totally sucky fourth edition of dungeons and dragons?
joe
