Immortal's Handbook continuation thread

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Clay_More mate!

Well, I sent a mail.

I replied not so long ago.

Glad that you could find time to take a quickie glance, most people are discouraged when they see a 15-pages long template (for one reason or another).

Yes it was something of a shock to the system I must admit.

I am currently about a third of the way through.

And as for the skeletons, you should see how proud my players were with their self-developed tactic of using Expeditious Retreat and Longbows, doesn't work so well when you inflict almost no damage though

That is what I sometimes find unbalancing about the lower CR monsters, they are more easily out-balanced by special qualities / attacks, especially when these qualities are ones that work better against some classes / weapons.

Exactly. You could make a 1st-level character magic immune and give them a +1250 Exterminating Greatsword and they could still get killed by a single arrow to the chest.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

CR isn't only about melee effectiveness. Sleep and color spray pretty much make orc problems non existant, just like turning does to skeletons. And the average first level ac isn't 16... scalemail and 14 dex is GOOD for first level. Skeletons are also immune to sneak attack and critical hits, negating that rogue's bonus damage, where the rogue can drop an orc in one hit pretty easily, not so with a skeleton, especially if he lacks a blunt weapon. I'll admit, orcs can be mean with great axes and studded leather armor, but so can skeletons with great axes and studded leather armor. Skeletons have much superior AC to orcs given the same gear. (armed with large shields and studded leather, skeleton ac hits 19, which is tough at first level.) Also initiative modifiers favor skeletons, which means they may get the jump on the party, and going first is important in the fast paced combat of dnd. So I'll stand by my claim that skeletons are harder than orcs, without clerics, and are about equal to orcs with clerics and a wizard or sorcerer with color spray or sleep.

Absolutely. Equipment is definately a pertinent factor here. Overall I think the skeleton just shades it.

Incidently the type up of the CR/EL modifications is going really well. I have also added certain unique epic abilities to the list.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya, UK

Bonjour mon ami!

I don't remember which are the other three ?

The Moon Daemon which they changed for the worst. Initially it was meant to have a female upper body growing from the head of a large 'werewolf'.

The Elder Larvae which was meant to be transparent so you could see who had been swallowed (still don't know why they changed that)

The Crown Naga which was totally butchered (my initial monster was CR25; had nine heads and could use spells with each every round).

But for all that I was still pretty happy they were picked.

 

[Gez]

The Moon Daemon which they changed for the worst. Initially it was meant to have a female upper body growing from the head of a large 'werewolf'.

Growing from the head ? I'm not sure how to picture that. And no legs ?

The Elder Larvae which was meant to be transparent so you could see who had been swallowed (still don't know why they changed that)

The creature is still described as being translucent, though. But nothing on seeing the eaten victims. Maybe merely for word count reasons. I'm struggling with that right now, word count.

The Crown Naga which was totally butchered (my initial monster was CR25; had nine heads and could use spells with each every round).

Did your original could be used as ammunition as well ?

 

[Clay_More]

Hmm, they must be the ones he is the least proud of, must it not?

 

[Anubis]

Given the same equipment the skeleton is superior.

Uh, no. I can't see ANY point at which a skeleton is superior to an orc. The orc will almost ALWAYS cause more damage to a party than a skeleton will. Heck, come Level 2, the skeleton is a non-factor, while the orc can still get a hit or two in for decent damage. If anything, I'd rate skeletons at 1/2 and orcs at 1.

 

[Anubis]

CR isn't only about melee effectiveness. Sleep and color spray pretty much make orc problems non existant, just like turning does to skeletons. And the average first level ac isn't 16... scalemail and 14 dex is GOOD for first level. Skeletons are also immune to sneak attack and critical hits, negating that rogue's bonus damage, where the rogue can drop an orc in one hit pretty easily, not so with a skeleton, especially if he lacks a blunt weapon. I'll admit, orcs can be mean with great axes and studded leather armor, but so can skeletons with great axes and studded leather armor. Skeletons have much superior AC to orcs given the same gear. (armed with large shields and studded leather, skeleton ac hits 19, which is tough at first level.) Also initiative modifiers favor skeletons, which means they may get the jump on the party, and going first is important in the fast paced combat of dnd. So I'll stand by my claim that skeletons are harder than orcs, without clerics, and are about equal to orcs with clerics and a wizard or sorcerer with color spray or sleep.

Eldorian Antar

AC 16 is actually average. That assumes an AVERAGE Dexterity, but having scale mail and a large steel shield. It's not a flat rate by any means, but it is the average.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Gez mate!

Growing from the head ? I'm not sure how to picture that. And no legs ?

Imagine a ten foot tall werewolf with a Succubus like torso growing out of the top of its head.

The creature is still described as being translucent, though. But nothing on seeing the eaten victims. Maybe merely for word count reasons. I'm struggling with that right now, word count.

I thought it would have made for a more interesting illustration.

Did your original could be used as ammunition as well ?

No it was a 30ft behemoth.

Naga, Crown
Art Notes: Heads splayed writhing in their own majesty it resembles a great nine headed serpent, each head humanoid yet twisted in hatred.

Huge Aberration
Hit Dice: 27d8+189 (310 hp)
Initiative: +8 (+4 Dex, +4 improved initiative)
Speed: 40 ft.
AC: 27 (-2 size, +4 Dex, +16 natural )
Attacks: 9 bites +27 melee
Damage: Bites 2d6+13 and poison
Face/Reach: 15 ft. by 15 ft. (coiled) / 10 ft.
Special Attacks: Charming gaze, detect thoughts, poison, spit, spells
Special Qualities: Poison immunity, regeneration, spell resistance 32
Saves: Fort +18, Ref +15, Will +25
Abilities: Str 28, Dex 19, Con 25, Int 26, Wis 26, Cha 35
Skills: Bluff +16, Concentration +16, Knowledge (any one) +14, Listen +23, Sense Motive +14, Spellcraft +14, Spot +23
Feats: Alertness, Combat Casting, Dodge, Improved Critical (bite), Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Multiattack, Spell Focus (any one school)
Climate/Terrain: Temperate and warm land and underground
Organization: Solitary or nest (naga crown plus 2-4 devil nagas and 5-8 spirit nagas)
Challenge Rating: 25
Treasure: Triple Standard
Alignment: Usually chaotic evil
Advancement Range: By character class

Description
Naga crowns represent the zenith of naga mutation. Heads splayed writhing in their own majesty. These creatures resemble a great nine headed serpent, each head humanoid yet twisted in hatred. They easily reach 50 feet in length and weigh about 9000 pounds. Scales are coloured at the whim of the monster, though they typically favour green banded with black.
Magically adept with few peers they dominate the surrounding territory, quickly establishing a niche for them and their brood. Naga crowns enjoy charming opponents by gaze or by spell, and any lair will likely have charmed humanoid or animal slaves until such time a sthe nagas finish playing with such 'toys'. Considered by many, as well as themselves, as the true masters of naga kind it has been speculated that naga crowns are the spawn of the titaness Mormo, mother of serpents. She who has given birth to many such abominations. However, even if this is the case, naga crowns acknowledge no power greater than themselves. So any homage to Mormo is rendered through the spreading of grief and murder rather than actual supplication.

Combat
Fearsome opponents indeed. Capable of combating attacks on several fronts at once, they will swiftly dispose of all but the most redoubtable of challenges. Attackers can quickly find themselves overcome by multiple spells in the space of but a few seconds. Each head acts independantly, yet coordinated with the whole mass, the effects can be deadly. Potentially capable of casting as many as nine spells in a single round, with commensurate physical abilities to match, these creatures consider themselves invincible.
To sever a head of a naga crown an opponent must hit the monsters neck with a slashing weapon and deal damage equal to the naga crown's original hit point total, divided by its original number of heads in one blow.

Charming Gaze (Su): As charm person, Will save (DC 34).
Detect Thoughts (Su): A naga crown can continuously detect thoughts as the spell cast by a 17th-level sorceror (DC24). this ability is always active.
Poison (Ex): Bites, Fortitude save (DC 30); initial damage 2d8 temporary Constitution, secondary damage death.
Poison Immunity (Ex): a naga crown is immune to all poisons and toxins.
Regeneration (Ex): A naga crown regenerates severed heads in 2d6 rounds. To prevent a head growing back, at least 5 points of fire or acid damage must be dealt to the stump (AC31) before the new head appears.
Skills: A naga crown receives a +8 racial bonus to Spot and Listen checks due to its multiple heads.
Spit (Ex): A naga crown can spit its venom up to 30ft. as a standard action. The attack ignores armor and has no range increment. Opponents hit by this attack must attempt saves against the naga crown's poison as above.
Spells: Naga crowns cast spells as 17th-level sorcerors, and can also cast cleric spells from the Chaos and Evil domains as arcane spells (save DC22 + spell level).

Hmm, they must be the ones he is the least proud of, must it not?

Naturally - the ones they wrongly changed.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Anubis mate!

Uh, no. I can't see ANY point at which a skeleton is superior to an orc.

Initiative
Armour Class
Hit Points
Weapon Resistance
Various Immunities

...but apart from that.

 

[Clay_More]

The Crown Naga which was totally butchered (my initial monster was CR25; had nine heads and could use spells with each every round).

Im still wondering though, did they change the story as well? Since the story collaborates the two-headedness of the Crown Naga, it must have been changed as well. You should post the original Crown Naga here (If you are allowed to) to rectify, I wouldn't mind seeing how the original was.