Immortal's Handbook continuation thread

[Clay_More]

Wow, cool. I was writing my post and you actually responded before I got to finish it... impressive....

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Clay_More mate!

Im still wondering though, did they change the story as well? Since the story collaborates the two-headedness of the Crown Naga, it must have been changed as well.

Well you see I submitted a two headed naga as well called the Devil Naga. They used aspects of that on their revision of the Crown Naga.

You should post the original Crown Naga here (If you are allowed to) to rectify, I wouldn't mind seeing how the original was.

I just did a few minutes ago!

 

[Clay_More]

Wow, it actually explains a problem I had when reading CCII. I wondered why they called it a Crown Naga... there was little "royal" about it, even though now I see why.
They must be horrible to use as opponents by a DM though, have to decide nine actions each round. But, I could easily think of many good attack / spell combos that would work wonders when you can use nine actions in a round.. The Naga could probably have all its defensive spells up in a single round and then begin inflicting mayhem. With its ability to use some cleric spells, it would be a nicely "buffed" creature, taking into account its combat capabilities as well. There was a general lack of high CR creatures in both of the CC books, im wondering why the original Crown Naga wasn't allowed in.

 

[Gez]

What about renaming it Imperator Naga and putting it in the IH ?

It's different enough from its CC2 transcription to be OK, I think.


(And the moon daemon would have looked very weird, I can understand their reasonning to make it look more "normal" -- although I don't say I approve, the 'loths are supposed to be weird).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Clay_More mate!

Wow, it actually explains a problem I had when reading CCII. I wondered why they called it a Crown Naga... there was little "royal" about it, even though now I see why.

They must be horrible to use as opponents by a DM though, have to decide nine actions each round. But, I could easily think of many good attack / spell combos that would work wonders when you can use nine actions in a round.

They do use up their spell quota quite quickly though.

The Naga could probably have all its defensive spells up in a single round and then begin inflicting mayhem. With its ability to use some cleric spells, it would be a nicely "buffed" creature, taking into account its combat capabilities as well.

I had a quick glance over the Naga Crown above and it seems like:

CR 40 (moderate) 20 (difficult)

There was a general lack of high CR creatures in both of the CC books, im wondering why the original Crown Naga wasn't allowed in.

I suspect it simply did not fit in with their plans for the setting. Sometimes powerful mosters can disturb the ecology of a place. Aside from the Slarecian Dragons (which are very rare and live underground anyway); the most powerful monsters of the Scarred Lands are unique types like Athentia the Great Sphinx; the Mithril Golem and the Reaver.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Bonjour mon ami!

What about renaming it Imperator Naga and putting it in the IH ?

A number of reasons. Firstly; I already have too many monsters in the Immortals Handbook. Secondly; the 'Imperator Naga' would be probably the weakest monster in that book. Also I have already posted it above so it has lost some of its 'je ne sais pas' (sp?).

It's different enough from its CC2 transcription to be OK, I think.

Indeed.

(And the moon daemon would have looked very weird, I can understand their reasonning to make it look more "normal" -- although I don't say I approve, the 'loths are supposed to be weird).

It was meant to be the Hadean version of the Erinyes/Succubus. A temptress that looks like a beautiful woman but (as a servant of Belsameth the Moon Goddess) changes (either voluntarily or sometimes unvolunterily under a full moon) to the aforementioned wolf-beast.

 

[Clay_More]

I only have the CC books from the Scarred Lands world, but they made me think that it had to be a low to medium power campaign. Kind of the opposite of what youre working on now, eh?
Most of the story components of the Scarred Lands campaign seems good though, the whole "torn in a divine war" theme makes for a good background and it makes it easy to find solid monster explanations. I also noticed how unusually many Evil monsters there are in the books, which is probably another campaign decision...

So far, the CR-calculating info I got seems sound. I cannot see anything with it that hasn't already been mentioned. Only problem is regarding template... Vampire: +9 Cr. Doesn't help alot when you made your own
Anyways, hows the review going of my unworthy material?

 

[Anubis]

Hey, UK, could you go check out the new demon lord I wrote up?

It's here:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42262

What I really need to know is if I got the CR right. Until you have released the final version of your rules, I have decided to go by the originals with a few modifications here and there. They work fine at lower levels, and although they break down at higher levels, I would still love for input as to what this thing's CR should be by the original system. (In other words, since CR is supposed to be when the creature is a standard challenge for a party of that level, when should the CR of the thing be?)

I currently have it listed at 39, but that may be incorrect. (I have considered bumping it up to 43, but would like input first.)

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Clay_More mate!

I only have the CC books from the Scarred Lands world, but they made me think that it had to be a low to medium power campaign.

I have the Wise and the Wicked (Great NPC softcover book) which really pulls out the stops on some tough NPCs (they even had epic characters before the Epic Level Handbook was released).

Kind of the opposite of what youre working on now, eh?

Well even the Epic Level Rules are lower powered compared to elements I propose. In some ways I feel that the ELH is sort of entry level to epic gaming whereas my rules expand to infinity*.

*and beyond (for those fans of Buzz Lightyear)

Most of the story components of the Scarred Lands campaign seems good though, the whole "torn in a divine war" theme makes for a good background and it makes it easy to find solid monster explanations. I also noticed how unusually many Evil monsters there are in the books, which is probably another campaign decision...

I think the Scarred Lands is a great setting with some great products. I think part of the attraction is that it is so bleak (in terms of the predominance of evil) that the heroes will really shine.

So far, the CR-calculating info I got seems sound. I cannot see anything with it that hasn't already been mentioned.

I think everyone is going to be so impressed with how detailed the final version of the CR/EL system is.

Only problem is regarding template... Vampire: +9 Cr. Doesn't help alot when you made your own

I am sure that is set to change. I will be finishing the templates and types/subtypes shortly...

Anyways, hows the review going of my unworthy material?

...when I get the Templates finished today I will post up the breakdown of the official vampire template. Then we can go through your changes. I have read over your entire body of work; curiously you have the same approach as Savage Species (not sure if you have that book yet?); though they seem to be able to condense everything a bit better.

 

[Clay_More]

Hey there Krust.
So, Buzz Lightyear will be appearing in IH? Cool, original I must say... (What is he, a paladin with boots of flying?).

As for the Scarred Lands, it is true that the goodness of the hero is always measured by the evil of his foes.
Do you, btw, have any idea how long the finished CR/EL system will be? I read the one I got sent and it was already 7 pages, and if templates and types/subtypes are going to be further detailed, it looks as if though it will have a good, big part of the finished book. Will you then be making the CR/EL system available to the flock of faithfuls that come here?

I dont have the Savage Species, I got other books on my to-buy list (and not bundles of cash lying around), but I might squeeze it in below Song & Silence.
Alas, one of the biggest predicaments was making the template detailed and at the same time easily understood. I know there is a problem with having Energy Drain, for example, described fifteen times. But, at least every last one can be used "directly", without having to referr to the above templates to calculate gifts, feats, skills, abilites etc. Constructing the template in the same manner as a class wouldn't be bad though, admitted.

Have you playtested any of the material in IH yet? I hope it offers some better playing advice than ELH (Make them fight PARAGON dragons instead of dragons and chage EPIC rogues instead of rogues!).

Anyways, ill keep my danish, ranting mouth closed for now