Immortal's Handbook continuation thread

[Clay_More]

If had a Rogue, with +200 Hide & +200 Move Silenty, how would you prevent me from killing your 50-feat Warrior while he was sleeping?

 

[Anubis]

You all bring up many different situations, but . . . You fail to bring out things that could actually be a normal occurance. All such circumstances are rare indeed. Most combat is open combat, not stealth. Such things are not worth levels except in EXTREME amounts.

 

[Anubis]

I got a similar thing for ya' right here . . . Imagine if you have the ability, as a human, to instantly kill a creature by touch, no save, regardless of power and other things, and the creature was gone from existence. Pretty powerful, ya? What if you could only do it every ten years? Better yet, what if you could only use it twice in your life, like every 50 years?

That's about how useful the skill bonuses are. In other words, not worth noting.

 

[Clay_More]

Well, it all comes down to how you roleplay combat. In my system, I often pit my players against rather powerful foes, compared to their level. I have fewer combats, but often more well-prepared & thought-through combats.
If they know in advance where the enemy is, they will sneak around his lair / home / castle. They will use Gather Information to find out about the layouts of the terrain, find little bits of information about their target and try to see what henchmen & allies he has sorrounding his home. During this time, they use plenty of hide, spot, search, move silently and knowledge checks. Sometimes Scry checks are employed as well.
One of my players, last time where they had to combat a sorcerer who lived in a rather remote place, used summoned monsters that he sent in. He then identified the spells the sorcerer used, noting what they were. He used his Knowledge (Undead) & (Planes) to identify the various guardians. The Rogue had carefully scouted out the traps around the tower and made notes on them on a map he had.

Now, tell me....

Does it have no influence AT ALL that my players attacked with Spell Immunity on, specifically tuned into the spells of the sorcerer, that they knew the location of all his traps, both magical and mundane beforehand, that they knew which creatures he had as guards and what their weaknesses were (which off course enables them to memorise spells that would harm them more efficiently and buy items against those specific monsters) and that they surprised their enemy during one of his few planned trips outside his home?
I hardly think you would say that it matters not. If they had rushed in, they would surely have perished, he was otherwise too high for them to beat.

 

[Gez]

You must have forgotten that CR, the issue at hand here, is only pertinent to combat itself to begin with!

If it's an RP modifier, it doesn't belong on the CHALLENGE Rating.

Bluff, Sense Motive (Feint)
Tumble
Hide, Move Silently (surprising opponent flat-footed)
Listen, Spot (Avoiding getting surprised)
Perform (Bardic music abilities)
Ride (AC for mount)
Concentration (casting on the defensive, avoiding losing a spell)
Spellcraft (Identifying a spell for purpose of counterspelling)
Knowledge Arcana, Nature or Religion: Number of Epic Spell Slot

There are plenty skills useful in combat, even from a strict fighting challenge approach. Granted, Knowledge: Hyperstring Theory or Craft: Pottery will not affect combat, but that don't mean none of them has influence on the fray.

And then again, the Agressive Pseudodimensional Translation spell may require a K. Hyperstring Theory check in order to successfully phase out of the universe a target; while building clay golems is cheaper if you don't have to hire a potter.



Speaking about CR, Craig (hello!), could you send me that document ? It may helps me finding a correct CR for a certain creature I'm working on...

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Anubis mate!

You all bring up many different situations, but . . . You fail to bring out things that could actually be a normal occurance.

Thats simply because there is no such thing as a normal occurance.

Skills are latent situational modifiers. Even if the rogue doesn't use Hide and Move Silently in an encounter he still has that potential. Just like a creature with a number of spell-like abilities may not use them all in an encounter; but its not what you do that judges a Challenge Rating its what you can do.

All such circumstances are rare indeed. Most combat is open combat, not stealth. Such things are not worth levels except in EXTREME amounts.

Roleplaying factors are less obtrusive yes, but still relevant to the whole.

I got a similar thing for ya' right here . . . Imagine if you have the ability, as a human, to instantly kill a creature by touch, no save, regardless of power and other things, and the creature was gone from existence. Pretty powerful, ya?

Well I don't like the no save bit, and its obviously a supernatural effect.

If it only worked from one limb/appendage I would say CR +2

What if you could only do it every ten years? Better yet, what if you could only use it twice in your life, like every 50 years?

1/Year = CR +0.04
1/Millenium = CR +0.008

That's about how useful the skill bonuses are. In other words, not worth noting.

Incorrect analogy.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Bonjour mon ami!

And then again, the Agressive Pseudodimensional Translation spell may require a K. Hyperstring Theory check in order to successfully phase out of the universe a target; while building clay golems is cheaper if you don't have to hire a potter.

Speaking about CR, Craig (hello!), could you send me that document ? It may helps me finding a correct CR for a certain creature I'm working on...

Its not finished yet, I'll keep you all informed don't worry.

 

[Aloïsius]

What would be the CR of Lord Kelvin, once adequately stated in your immortal system ?

 

[Aloïsius]

Hello, the post above is from Gez. I don't write english so fluently.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

What would be the CR of Lord Kelvin, once adequately stated in your immortal system ?

According to the evidence presented it would appear he is a Proto-deity. His Challenge Rating would be in the neighbourhood of 500 or so.