Well, it seems we have our first potential project idea for making beasts to include in future Bestiaries. I'll quote a post I made in the Ascension thread, in response to one by UK regarding whether a fusion of Demiliches with an Akalich could produce a different sort of undead being, below.
My proposal is this- let's start figuring out what these proposed monsters can do, if not nail down names and concepts for them. To me, the best course of action seems to be starting at the level of the two-part fusions, and build the three-part entities once we have those by deciding how the entities could be combined; a Necroverse should then prove much easier to figure out since we have examples at the three-part (Cosmic) level and can combine those. Also, by working that way, we'll be able to work around UK's schedule of updates to Ascension, incorporating appropriate Divine powers into the Akalich-level beings, and later adding appropriate Cosmic powers to the three-part Cosmic undead, and Transcendent powers into the final Necroverse template. And that brings up another point; I like undead templates, and feel that these proposed mega-undead beings- at all levels of power- will work best as templates. If others disagree, feel free to voice that opinion and say why. I freely admit that my opinion may not be the majority one, nor may it even be the best means of statting up such beings in the end.
UK or other moderators, if you feel this post should properly be the start of its own thread, feel free to split it off from this one, or email me and I'll make a new thread for it myself.
So, here's a beginning- notice that most of the undead on the list UK gave about the different types of undead are templates, or at least available as templates. We know that the Nosferatu and Welkin, as yet unseen by us, are going to be templates, and can potentially guess at some of their powers. The Nosferatu is clearly going to be a sort of Demilich-equivalent for Vampires, for example, while the Welkin is an Akalich-power being, and will be appropriately powered. The Nosferatu is likely going to have some super-powered version of the Vampire's energy drain power, and probably its blood drain power as well. Since the Welkin appears to be a higher-"level" version of Mummies and Hunefers in addition to Vampires and Nosferatu, it seems likely to me that it will have some sort of plague-causing power, a superior version of the Mummy Rot essentially. the point is, these templates are intended to be applied to creatures which are already undead in other forms- they are not created directly, but evolve from lower beings. Our new undead should be the same.
While the above doesn't help us directly, it does give us a starting point for considering what these other Akalich-level "combination" undead should do. Here's another idea that may help- in White Wolf's original World of Darkness, the vampires have powers based on several bloodlines (called "clans") which they could potentially belong to, and these clans each have founding members of extremely old age and ridiculous power, called the Antediluvians. Vampires in that world tell legends of a comping apocalypse (called Gehenna) wherein the Antediluvians, who have all been in deep death-sleep for hundreds of years, awaken and begin to feed again- on their own vampire descendents, since no other blood is potent enough to feed them properly. Now, when White Wolf released their line of products ending the original WoD, they proposed several versions of Gehenna, and among those versions was one wherein the reason the Antediluvians awoke was to complete a centuries-long transformation into a divine state that they thought existed beyond their vampiric undeath. This sort of evolution into divine-level entities is essentially what our proposed undead types are undergoing, so it may be instructive to look at different powers attributed to the Antediluvians in the original Vampire products as a guide for our own super-undead.
I don't have too many ideas to start this off, but here's one for consideration: that Blood + Spirit being does sound an awful lot like a super-Crimson Death, a blood-mist monster, doesn't it? One of the Antediluvians in the WoD was described as having the ability to drain blood from its victims- whole cities of them at once, in fact- without even taking corporeal form or touching them with a body at all. Essentially, the being could make the victims' blood sort of sweat out of them directly, without even opening real wounds. This blood-drain-at-a-distance power is one that the fusion of Blood and Spirit should definitely have, IMO. Just by being near it, creatures will take CON drain as their blood is sucked right out their pores to feed it. What else should this entity be able to accomplish? What does it look like exactly, and what is it called?
Ideas? Thoughts? Counterpoints? Hate mail?
People seemed to really like this idea, but it doesn't really belong in the Ascension thread if we're going to do something about it, now does it.Me said:Cool take on undeath, very sensible. Perhaps we readers of the Bestiary might collaborate to create some of these higher fusions of undeath for possible inclusion in future Bestiaries?Upper_Krust said:
Of course, it would be helpful to see the Welkin before beginning such a project, so we could be sure to avoid stepping on UK's toes that way.
Also, if combinations happen at the Akalich "level" by bringing two together, might some Cosmic entities somehow combine three? Might there be an Eternal-level type of entity that has aspects of all four at once- a sort of Necroverse if you will?
My proposal is this- let's start figuring out what these proposed monsters can do, if not nail down names and concepts for them. To me, the best course of action seems to be starting at the level of the two-part fusions, and build the three-part entities once we have those by deciding how the entities could be combined; a Necroverse should then prove much easier to figure out since we have examples at the three-part (Cosmic) level and can combine those. Also, by working that way, we'll be able to work around UK's schedule of updates to Ascension, incorporating appropriate Divine powers into the Akalich-level beings, and later adding appropriate Cosmic powers to the three-part Cosmic undead, and Transcendent powers into the final Necroverse template. And that brings up another point; I like undead templates, and feel that these proposed mega-undead beings- at all levels of power- will work best as templates. If others disagree, feel free to voice that opinion and say why. I freely admit that my opinion may not be the majority one, nor may it even be the best means of statting up such beings in the end.
UK or other moderators, if you feel this post should properly be the start of its own thread, feel free to split it off from this one, or email me and I'll make a new thread for it myself.
So, here's a beginning- notice that most of the undead on the list UK gave about the different types of undead are templates, or at least available as templates. We know that the Nosferatu and Welkin, as yet unseen by us, are going to be templates, and can potentially guess at some of their powers. The Nosferatu is clearly going to be a sort of Demilich-equivalent for Vampires, for example, while the Welkin is an Akalich-power being, and will be appropriately powered. The Nosferatu is likely going to have some super-powered version of the Vampire's energy drain power, and probably its blood drain power as well. Since the Welkin appears to be a higher-"level" version of Mummies and Hunefers in addition to Vampires and Nosferatu, it seems likely to me that it will have some sort of plague-causing power, a superior version of the Mummy Rot essentially. the point is, these templates are intended to be applied to creatures which are already undead in other forms- they are not created directly, but evolve from lower beings. Our new undead should be the same.
While the above doesn't help us directly, it does give us a starting point for considering what these other Akalich-level "combination" undead should do. Here's another idea that may help- in White Wolf's original World of Darkness, the vampires have powers based on several bloodlines (called "clans") which they could potentially belong to, and these clans each have founding members of extremely old age and ridiculous power, called the Antediluvians. Vampires in that world tell legends of a comping apocalypse (called Gehenna) wherein the Antediluvians, who have all been in deep death-sleep for hundreds of years, awaken and begin to feed again- on their own vampire descendents, since no other blood is potent enough to feed them properly. Now, when White Wolf released their line of products ending the original WoD, they proposed several versions of Gehenna, and among those versions was one wherein the reason the Antediluvians awoke was to complete a centuries-long transformation into a divine state that they thought existed beyond their vampiric undeath. This sort of evolution into divine-level entities is essentially what our proposed undead types are undergoing, so it may be instructive to look at different powers attributed to the Antediluvians in the original Vampire products as a guide for our own super-undead.
I don't have too many ideas to start this off, but here's one for consideration: that Blood + Spirit being does sound an awful lot like a super-Crimson Death, a blood-mist monster, doesn't it? One of the Antediluvians in the WoD was described as having the ability to drain blood from its victims- whole cities of them at once, in fact- without even taking corporeal form or touching them with a body at all. Essentially, the being could make the victims' blood sort of sweat out of them directly, without even opening real wounds. This blood-drain-at-a-distance power is one that the fusion of Blood and Spirit should definitely have, IMO. Just by being near it, creatures will take CON drain as their blood is sucked right out their pores to feed it. What else should this entity be able to accomplish? What does it look like exactly, and what is it called?
Ideas? Thoughts? Counterpoints? Hate mail?
![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
