Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary (Epic Monster Discussion)

[paradox42]

Occult-sounding names are definitely to be preferred. I personally like combination words, so I prefer one-word names, and built a name based on that notion- though I agree that both Cruor and Phasmatis sound exotic and mystical, and could do nicely as name roots if put together properly.

I went into some dictionaries of Latin and Greek roots out of curiosity myself, and came up with a name based off of the "Blood God" title for that Blade creature- Erythreon. Erythro is a Greek root for red, often used in scientific jargon for blood-related things; theos is the Greek root for god, which I converted to theon because it "sounds" better to my mental ear when combined with the first root. The root prefix hem- and suffix -emia actually mean blood, but what sort of word could we combine with them to make a cool-sounding name that doesn't also sound like, say, a disease? Then again, given what the being is, maybe we actually want it to sound like a disease, but that probably won't seem very mystical or occultish.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Erythreon sounds great.
Now... Basic Powers. Something Blood Related I assume We could use Ascension to stat out the powers, since one divine ability is worth +1 Cr, Withering [Effect] works for the blood draining powers. A Vampiric Withering [Effect] would work too.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

Some cool ideas being thrown about.

I just thought I would share my Undead plans for Bestiaries 2 & 3. I agree that most undead work best as Templates, except Nightshades and (most) Umbrals.

Seiriel (Nightgalloper)...Nightshade

Atalia (Lunar Shadow)
Egregori (Sun Shadow/Eclipse Shadow)
Eidolon (Star Shadow)

Zymbear (Rust Revenant)

Nosferatu...Vampire equivalent of Demilich/Hunefer
Cimerial (King Wight)...Death Knight equivalent of Demilich/Hunefer
Lares...Ghost equivalent of Demilich/Hunefer

Welkin (Everlasting)...Mummy/Vampire equivalent of Akalich...sort of like a Vampire Intelligence I suppose.

Varcolac (Soulless One)
Garganaut (Bloodless One)
...which I suppose gives us a potential Boneless One and Fleshless One. I should note that the above two will most likely not be Templates.

Un-beings (__________).

Omega (Lord of Death).

Umbrals

Gamaliel (Obscene One) Template
Samael (Liars)
Ghareb Tzerek (Ravens of Death)
Tagiriron (Disputers)
Golohab (Burners)
Agshekolah (Disturbers of Souls)
Thaumiel (Double Headed Ones)
Casim (Hollow Ones)
Tamas (Entropy)

As you can see, a few more undead in the next two volumes. Hope that was of some help/interest?

 

[historian]

I must say all of that sounds incredibly cool.

U_K, are the Garganaut and Varcolac roughly equivalent in power to a Demiurge?

I'm also curious about the Omega template. Sounds nasty!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey dude!

I must say all of that sounds incredibly cool.

I definately didn't have enough undead in Volume One so I have to make up for it.

U_K, are the Garganaut and Varcolac roughly equivalent in power to a Demiurge?

Well I know I put the Garganaut into that sort of bracket in the Divine Prodigy table, but to be honest I haven't decided yet. At the very least they will be Elder One type power.

I'm also curious about the Omega template. Sounds nasty!

I'm curious about it too.

While I can probably tell you the hit dice, ability scores and special powers of most of the monsters in Volumes 2 & 3, the Omega Template currently ain't one of them.

 

[paradox42]

I just thought I would share my Undead plans for Bestiaries 2 & 3. I agree that most undead work best as Templates, except Nightshades and (most) Umbrals.
.
.
.
As you can see, a few more undead in the next two volumes. Hope that was of some help/interest?

Well, a list is nice and all, but with just the names we don't really have any idea what the beasts are supposed to be, so we won't be able to avoid stepping on your toes in that respect (if our ideas happen to intersect yours, I mean- hopefully they haven't yet).

Is the proposed Necroverse at all congruous to the Omega? Are we talking about the same thing here, really? Or is the Omega actually more powerful than a mere Necroverse, though likely to have similar powers to one?

Welkin (Everlasting)...Mummy/Vampire equivalent of Akalich...sort of like a Vampire Intelligence I suppose.

What does this mean? Is it an undead brain, or is it incorporeal like the Akalich and has no actual body (I thought that was part of the Akalich because of its Spirit nature)?

Varcolac (Soulless One)
Garganaut (Bloodless One)
...which I suppose gives us a potential Boneless One and Fleshless One. I should note that the above two will most likely not be Templates.

I was actually debating with myself whether the blood-cloud/Erythreon should be a template as well- how would the base creature change its powers? But for now we'll proceed under the assumption that it will be- certainly if the mechanics work out I'd prefer it to be one since it's supposed to evolve from lower undead.

And yes, yes that list does give the potential you suppose it does. Actually, if they're Cosmic-level beings as it is- and you said the Garganaut will be like an Elder One, so it probably will be- then we may be looking at the proposed three-natured undead beings at the Cosmic level here. There would, of course, only be four types of them overall- each one is missing a nature.

 

[Phantom Llama]

The Boneless One and Fleshless One strike me as suggesting Shapechanging and Incorporeal beings respectively.

 

[paradox42]

Erythreon sounds great.
Now... Basic Powers. Something Blood Related I assume We could use Ascension to stat out the powers, since one divine ability is worth +1 Cr, Withering [Effect] works for the blood draining powers. A Vampiric Withering [Effect] would work too.

Yes, we ought to use Ascension as a guide I think, though we also have the Akalich to compare to and I don't think absolutely every one of its abilities has shown up on Ascension's list yet (the Lord of Shadows ability doesn't count since it gives you the entire template and is thus based on the template rather than the reverse).

One ability I do think it should have is the blood-drain-at-distance one I suggested in my first post on this subject, the one based on the ability of the Antediluvian from V:tM's Gehenna. This could be something granted to the Erythreon's divine aura (or equivalent- it's likely to have one given what we're working up here) where it drains CON in creatures within the aura and gives the Erythreon hit points in exchange, or it could use a different mechanic- perhaps one based on fatigue. Maybe it does both at the same time- that could represent a power that drains not just blood, but also life and vitality, yes? Now, the ability drain part is certainly a Withering [Effect], particularly if the final text for Withering [Effect] (which we haven't seen yet) says the deity gets temporary hit points or healing from the drain. But which [Effect] is it actually? Is it a Wave? Storm? Visage? Perhaps it isn't any of those, but is instead a new power based off the precedents of the Epic/Divine/Cosmic/Transcendent Presence abilities- i.e. everything within the Divine Aura gains an ability. Is this a "Withering Presence" ability then?

Other potential abilities suggest themselves from the ideas we threw out in other posts so far- you, Ltheb, suggested we use the Barghest as a guide, and that's a good idea. Perhaps the creature gains something other than hit points when it drains blood, or- even more interesting still- perhaps it can choose to drain things other than blood, and gain differing bonuses based on what it drains. What about that flesh-crumbling effect I suggested in the flavor post? Perhaps that's a side effect of this special type of drain. Perhaps it's just one of the alternate draining types, and only the most recognizable based on the immediately-obvious results of its use. I obliquely suggested in the flavor post that maybe the thing can enter dead bodies and animate them somehow; perhaps creatures within the cloud spontaneously rise as zombies or other undead (I suppose Vampire Spawn or actual Vampires would be the obvious choice). What would we call these powers?

For still other abilities, we should probably list out what the Akalich has that is recognizable in Ascension so we have a basis for comparison. The Erythreon won't have them all of course, in fact I'd say it shouldn't have more than half at most since it only shares half the Akalich's nature at best (the Spirit side). Even so, we can figure out a few nifty things to add to it from said list. I have to go out for a while here, soon, so I can't make the list immediately myself, but I'll check this when I get back and start making the list if nobody else has started by then.

 

[paradox42]

Well, looking at the Akalich, it doesn't actually gain any particularly special abilities matching Ascension's lists- it has the equivalent of Divine Toughness, four Energy Immunities, Unknowing Mind, and Maven and Omnicompetent (which as others have pointed out are usually bundled together in the "monster ability" Omnicompetent that some Bestiary monsters get). But those are all pretty generic, nothing that seems at all tied to the Akalich's status as a millennia-old spirit remnant of an undead spellcaster or death knight. Also, the Akalich doesn't have any actual Divine ranks or divine status as such; it's just an extremely powerful undead template. So, we should be pretty free with our abilities, not concerned too much about using Ascension rules to build it. Some generic Divine abilities are appropriate, no doubt, but we don't need to build these things like deities- in fact, the existing precedent suggests that we shouldn't.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

... So, we should be pretty free with our abilities, not concerned too much about using Ascension rules to build it...

Well, since U_K has laid some pretty good guidelines for CR/ECL of the divine templates and the break down of such, we could just use those guidelines...
Ex: Just take away all the divine bonus, but still rate powers on the Divine Ability Slot scale. Etc
I think this creature doesn't need a million unique powers (It can't use them all anyway) but 2-4 good ones.
- A Life Drain effect, possibly Withering [Ray] or [Storm]
- Undead creation/Possession - A create spawn ability for Vampires, and the Magic Jar Spell-Like ability.
- The ability to energy drain foes?
- Perhaps a charm/dominate/rage ability, to cause mass bloodshed?
- ???
As for type... Undead Ooze (Incorporeal)?
... Would it be mindless? (Doubtful)
... How big is it? (Large/Huge so it can engulf things?)