Immortals Handbook - Grimoire (Artifacts, Epic Magic discussion)

[Upper_Krust]

Hi paradox42 mate!

Just wanted to point this out- it looks to me like you just contradicted your own answer to me in post #285.

No, but I see now how the comments could be confusing.

So a Cosmic Container (fair point, most of them aren't actually cubical), as a sort of Time-Lord-type object (being that by definition, it contains a universe and all), is an Eternal artifact (or whatever you're going to call them)?

No. Its still a major artifact.

What I meant was that an Eternal artifact will be sentient in the same way that a cosmic cube is sentient. Not that a cosmic cube is an eternal level artifact.

Or did you mean that when a Cosmic "Cube" is asleep or totally nonsentient, it's effectively a Major Artifact, but when it wakes up, or spawns a consciousness like the Beyonder, it's effectively an Eternal item?

Neither.

It was not a comment about the power of an item, only about the sentience of an item.

 

[historian]

Hey U_K!

Glad to hear you are okay!

Thanks, you too. I've been getting to your boards and website pretty regularly I just haven't had much time to post.

Do you mind if I use the sentence...

"I've been fine, thanks for asking. Busier than I'd like to be but so goes it."

...that seems to sum me up to a tee.

Hang in there.

Don't you mean THOTU?

Yes, whoops.

I don't think Starlin explained it accurately enough, although that could have been intentional.

I think it was intentional because it's such a powder keg of a subject.

Out of curiousity what is this evidence you sepak of?

While it's not as heavy as I would like I always found it compelling that when the LT marshalls the forces against newly ascended Thanos (at the end of issue #5 if memory serves) that the panes show only one version of each of the heroes.

In theory, if Thanos' power had been Omniversal in nature Starlin would have shown all versions from all the Marvel realities attacking, a la DC Crisis.

Of course, my argument has some issues.

For example, if Thanos' power was only Universal in nature then how did he overcome the LT?

Also, why would the LT even have intervened if Thanos' power was limited to only one Universe?

Therein lies the difficulty in classifying THOTU.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey U_K!

Hiya mate!

Thanks, you too. I've been getting to your boards and website pretty regularly I just haven't had much time to post.

The main thing is you are keeping well.

While it's not as heavy as I would like I always found it compelling that when the LT marshalls the forces against newly ascended Thanos (at the end of issue #5 if memory serves) that the panes show only one version of each of the heroes.

In theory, if Thanos' power had been Omniversal in nature Starlin would have shown all versions from all the Marvel realities attacking, a la DC Crisis.

Of course, my argument has some issues.

For example, if Thanos' power was only Universal in nature then how did he overcome the LT?

Also, why would the LT even have intervened if Thanos' power was limited to only one Universe?

Therein lies the difficulty in classifying THOTU.

I think the key element here is the Living Tribunal, rather than whether alternate versions of Hawkeye* showed up. If you can pwn a High Lord with no real trouble then I think you have to say its the Supreme Being.

*Though maybe Krona would disagree.

 

[historian]

Hey U_K!

The main thing is you are keeping well.

Thanks, you too.

I think the key element here is the Living Tribunal, rather than whether alternate versions of Hawkeye* showed up.

LOL!

It's rather ridiculous that they showed up at all considering the CR/EL relationship.

 

[shadethief]

I'm currently trying to figure out how what the cost of placing a certain enchantment into an artifact. Say I have a pair of bracers that are allowed a +40 worth of special abilities. What is the + cost of an ability to create a number of daggers equal to the number of attacks, including attacks of opportunity, a round. I know the total plus of the weapon is counted, but I can't figure out the cost for the creation aspect. Also, how do you go about pricing spells in artifacts? For instance a permanent divine power, dimension door 3x day, etc. Thanks in advance.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey shadethief dude!

I'm currently trying to figure out how what the cost of placing a certain enchantment into an artifact. Say I have a pair of bracers that are allowed a +40 worth of special abilities.

Bracers of Epic Armor +40 (assuming an ECL 80 character) would cost 16,000,000 GP.

What is the + cost of an ability to create a number of daggers equal to the number of attacks, including attacks of opportunity, a round. I know the total plus of the weapon is counted, but I can't figure out the cost for the creation aspect.

I'd probably allow that ability as some sort of variant of the returning weapon special ability. So maybe an additional +1 per dagger.

So for a +6 power, you could throw a potential six daggers per round (assuming you had that many attacks of course), and they would return to you at the start of the next round.

Also, how do you go about pricing spells in artifacts? For instance a permanent divine power, dimension door 3x day, etc. Thanks in advance.

Adding such abilities to an artifact would be exactly the same as adding it to any magic item.

Divine abilities are treated as if a +6 market modifier.

 

[Farealmer3]

Is this also going to have rules for powerful technological devices? For example Dr. Doom, Reed Richards and Thanos have build technology that has allowed them to compete with powerful cosmic forces. In short cosmic technology as opposed to magical artifacts.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Is this also going to have rules for powerful technological devices?

Such as?

I'm certainly looking to cover armour, weapons (melee and missile) and perhaps a smattering of other items, as well as perhaps indicating at what Progress Level certainly magical effects can be duplicated by technology.

For example Dr. Doom, Reed Richards and Thanos have build technology that has allowed them to compete with powerful cosmic forces. In short cosmic technology as opposed to magical artifacts.

The idea that Reed Richards has created time machines and stuff like that is a bit too anachronistic for my liking.

Something thats cutting edge in one Progress Level will be standard military equipment on the next, and basic household implements the Progress Level after that.

 

[Farealmer3]

Such as?

The various weapons and gadgets in d20 future/future tech Like the Singularity cannon, time bridge, and antimatter gun.

The idea that Reed Richards has created time machines and stuff like that is a bit too anachronistic for my liking.

True enough, but Thanos certianly has reason for his high techery.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy!

The various weapons and gadgets in d20 future/future tech Like the Singularity cannon, time bridge, and antimatter gun.

Easy peasy.

True enough, but Thanos certianly has reason for his high techery.

He has reason for a higher tech than Richards certainly, but that tech will be medieval compared to the likes of Galactus. Progress Levels (or tech levels if you prefer) have to mean something, otherwise they mean nothing.

Thanos greatest scientific creation was a spaceship which could destroy a planet with presumably one shot. As such, that puts him on a par with the tech level of the Star Wars universe or slightly ahead (his ship was notably smaller than the Death Star*)

*Though so was the Eclipse Class Star Destroyer from the Expanded Universe Star Wars Material.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Destroyer