immortals handbook

[Impeesa]

Yeah, I've been thinking for a while now... I should send him some cash in lieu of buying him a drink, and then he could maybe hook me up with a playtest copy by way of thanks...

--Impeesa--

 

[S'mon]

Speaking of Mordenkainen's Disjunction, what's your opinion on that spell, UK? I think it's terribly broken.

We never had any problem with it in the 1e/2e Thrin campaign. I guess maybe it's a bigger problem now because PCs are supposed to have exactly a certain amount of wealth at a certain level. It's not the kind of spell that naturally gets used a lot - the stronger side won't want to use it as it reduces their loot. Only a weaker side with access to 9th level spells facing opponents with particularly powerful magic items is likely to use it.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

Bastard! Tease!

I can't go around spoiling surprises now can I.

O Merciless Omnipotence, spare us thy burning wit and bring us the book. The precious, precious book! That we may look upon it and prosper! Look upon it and weep! Look upon it and form grave-robbing grins as the DMs of old once did!

Won't be long now I'm sure.

(yeah, yeah, still waiting on WotC's durned D&Dg SRD stuff)

Yep.

GIVE ME THE @#$^& BOOK!!!! you don't understand I need it.......no really krust I do.

I appreciate the urgency mate.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello guys!

Yeah, I've been thinking for a while now... I should send him some cash in lieu of buying him a drink, and then he could maybe hook me up with a playtest copy by way of thanks...

Lets see where we are at the end of August. If WotC still haven't given us the SRD update I will make preparations to 'go it alone'; something I would have done a year ago if I had known they were going to stall so darn much.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey S'mon!

Don't see you too often in here.

We never had any problem with it in the 1e/2e Thrin campaign. I guess maybe it's a bigger problem now because PCs are supposed to have exactly a certain amount of wealth at a certain level. It's not the kind of spell that naturally gets used a lot - the stronger side won't want to use it as it reduces their loot. Only a weaker side with access to 9th level spells facing opponents with particularly powerful magic items is likely to use it.

The problem (as I see it) is twofold:

Firstly Mordenkainens Disjunction is now a standard action spell. Whereas before it was a 9 segment spell. Making it a far more viable attack spell. An epic wizard who won initiative could even cast a quickened Disjunction followed by another Disjunction before the opponent could react.

Secondly (as you touched upon) PCs are supposed to have a certain amount of wealth; but the main incongruity is that at high levels wealth affects certain classes differently. Taking away an epic Fighters magic items will hamstring them a lot worse than doing the same for any of the main spellcaster classes.

Personally I see it as a great (and probably overpowered) spell for wizards to inflict upon fighter types, which was why I advocated my minor change of checking the least expensive items first and stopping the effects when one item makes its save.

 

[Gez]

Hello Krusty,

Have you emailed the people at WotC recently about that SRDification ?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello Krusty,

Hi Gez mate!

Hope the heat hasn't been unbearable for you the past few weeks.

Have you emailed the people at WotC recently about that SRDification ?

Not lately, no.

I mean the word from Anthony Valterra was that the ELH would enter the SRD shortly after 3.5 was released and that D&Dg would shortly follow that.

Of course the terminology 'shortly' is subjective, and of course its not like WotC have to update the SRD at all - the whole OGL thing is really a boon for smaller outfits and I certainly wouldn't want to bite the hand that feeds me in this respect. But it would be nice to have someone give some straight answers.

As I mentioned before; I could take it if the SRD wasn't being updated; its this whole cloud of uncertainty thats really grating.

I probably only have myself to blame though; perhaps I am too much the naive optimist? I mean I could have finished the book a year ago (of course it wouldn't have been the same book it is now; and certainly not as good - though thats another story).

But at the back of my mind I just thought it would have been better received if it could marry the official epic and divine rules. Then everytime I spoke with WotC something on the horizon delayed the SRD update - first it was the Setting Contest; then d20 Modern; then D&D 3.5 and before you know it you have been waiting a year*!

*and technically its still not finished because with no set deadline (as yet) you keep thinking well maybe I can improve this bit or that bit and each change you make ripples through the entire book necessitating more changes.

[/mad rant]

I'll email WotC right now and see what they say.

 

[Gez]

Hope the heat hasn't been unbearable for you the past few weeks.

I survived. Thanks to vacations I could stay at home rather than have to go to the flat. Much fresher in my woods than in uptown Montpellier.


Let us know what WotC will reply. I hope it won't be delayed even further.


By the way, looking at the cosmology I built for my campaign world, I found out a theme that I find interesting. The higher you go in the "cosmic ladder", the less sentient you become. Mortals have free will, outsiders less so, gods are defined by their portfolios, and if you continue to look further it becames less and less beings, but more and more principles. The good thing with this is that you avoid CR 8000000000000000 creatures. I know you're adverse to drawing a line, but this creates a horizon rather than a firm line.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Gez mate!

I survived. Thanks to vacations I could stay at home rather than have to go to the flat. Much fresher in my woods than in uptown Montpellier.

Glad to hear you weren't too bad - news here was painting the picture that France was in a bad way.

Let us know what WotC will reply. I hope it won't be delayed even further.

I will.

By the way, looking at the cosmology I built for my campaign world, I found out a theme that I find interesting. The higher you go in the "cosmic ladder", the less sentient you become. Mortals have free will, outsiders less so, gods are defined by their portfolios, and if you continue to look further it becames less and less beings, but more and more principles. The good thing with this is that you avoid CR 8000000000000000 creatures. I know you're adverse to drawing a line, but this creates a horizon rather than a firm line.

You could say the higher you ascend the closer you are to touching the truly divine.

 

[S'mon]

The problem (as I see it) is twofold:

Firstly Mordenkainens Disjunction is now a standard action spell. Whereas before it was a 9 segment spell. Making it a far more viable attack spell. An epic wizard who won initiative could even cast a quickened Disjunction followed by another Disjunction before the opponent could react.

Secondly (as you touched upon) PCs are supposed to have a certain amount of wealth; but the main incongruity is that at high levels wealth affects certain classes differently. Taking away an epic Fighters magic items will hamstring them a lot worse than doing the same for any of the main spellcaster classes.

Personally I see it as a great (and probably overpowered) spell for wizards to inflict upon fighter types, which was why I advocated my minor change of checking the least expensive items first and stopping the effects when one item makes its save.

Hm, I can see a good case for lengthening the casting time, maybe to a full minute. Or make it a full round to cast, making it possibly castable in battle but very dangerous to do so. I like the spell and I don't see why weak items would protect powerful ones the way you suggest.

Personally I would like to see the game less reliant on wealth-per-level. I think wealth-per-level is good as a guideline when writing scenarios for the default power level, but it causes major problems such as NPCs having much less wealth than PCs of the same level even though they're supposedly the same CR. If the PCs wealth is greatly out of line with anyone else of their power, logically lots of NPCs are going to make a beeline for them to steal their stuff (as Gygax noted in 1e DMG).
3.5e seems to mark a move away from reliance on buffs and particular amounts of magic-by-level (eg the change to DR bypassing), which I think is a good thing.