immortals handbook

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Bjorn mate!

Ahhh. The problem was to me "surf and turf" always meant a dish of fish and steak. One can see how that may confuse a person. Or maybe I'm just not that bright. I dunno.

Maybe I was reading too much into it then. What can I say - I'm a deep thinker.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Should I revise the Angels?

Hi all!

I don't yet own 3.5 (until Tuesday) but I am privy to many of the details.

Suffice to say the myriad demons and devils have been greatly augmented with the Balor and Pit Fiend now representing entry level Quasi-deities and virtually on a par with the Solar while at the same time leaving the Planetar lagging behind.

Personally I am in favour of this boost; but not at the expense of the stagnation of the Angels, or at the very least it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. As I mentioned on another board; "I remember when the Planetar was more powerful than Orcus!"- now it could be punked out by a Marilith.

One the one hand this could just be the sour grapes talking and I should just wipe away the tears of nostalgia and take my lumps. But on the other; in the bygone era of AD&D (1st Edition obviously) there was a method behind the madness of the outer planes and its inhabitants (and their respective hierarchies) that is all too sadly lacking in todays sterilised D&D rulebooks (and by that I mean a lack of cross-pollenation and by extension a respect for the other books).

Part of me is tempted to return the Planetar and Solar to their former glory in the Immortals Handbook but another part of me says just let it be and detail your own Angels to fill that void thus avoiding the confusion of giving people two Planetars and two Solars...

...even if my versions were called Planetary Deva and Stellar Deva respectively.

Any comments?

Should I just say no to revising them and leave the past in the past?

 

[Anabstercorian]

Re: Should I revise the Angels?

Part of me is tempted to return the Planetar and Solar to their former glory in the Immortals Handbook but another part of me says just let it be and detail your own Angels to fill that void thus avoiding the confusion of giving people two Planetars and two Solars...

...even if my versions were called Planetary Deva and Stellar Deva respectively.

Any comments?

Should I just say no to revising them and leave the past in the past?

I'd LOVE to see Planetary and Stellar Deva's. That'd be pretty cool. However, you would then, by default, be obliged to provide us with a Galactic Deva, whose awesome might would shake the firmament.

 

[Melkor Lord Of ALL!]

Hi Upper Krust and Anabstecorian, my old rival from 3rd IR! It is unfortunate that I wasn`t often online during last year, but my evil parents took my computer because of important exams I had to undertake. But maybe it wasn`t such a bad idea since I had an 8th place out of 900 people on Uniwersity Entry exams( faculty of law). Anyway I am finally back, and quite surprised that Immortal`s Handbook isn`t yet finished. But I am quite sure it will be worth the waiting!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Re: Should I revise the Angels?

Hi Anabstercorian mate!

I'd LOVE to see Planetary and Stellar Deva's. That'd be pretty cool.

Well one way or the other I will have Devas occupying that niche I am just unsure if they will be derivative of their 1st Edition AD&D incarnations or not...

...at the moment I am edging towards making my own versions afresh.

However, you would then, by default, be obliged to provide us with a Galactic Deva, whose awesome might would shake the firmament.

What makes you think I would stop at a 'mere' galactic deva?

Incidently I believe Serge has a 'Galaxar' detailed over at the excellent Dicefreaks website in a thread in their epic rules forum.

Also for those of you who keep track of these things I have actually found obscure references to three types of angels more powerful than the Seraphim themselves...and as detailed in the Immortals Handbook one Seraphim is probably a match for an entire Pantheon.

I have not yet decided if these three greater-still ranks, which comprise the esoteric Over-Choir; collectively refered to as the "Huper Ouranioi" (which roughly translated means Super Celestials) will be detailed in the Immortals Handbook (I have every rank up to and including the Seraphim).

When you have monsters that can summon beings more powerful than Ao its probably time to draw the line...then again.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Upper Krust!

Hi Melkor mate!

I trust you and the family are keeping well!?

It is unfortunate that I wasn`t often online during last year,

Yeah! You disappeared without so much as a goodbye. I'm just glad to see you are okay.

but my evil parents took my computer because of important exams I had to undertake.

Your parents sound more like Lawful Good to me.

Do not underestimate the value of education my friend. Healthy mind, healthy body; thats what they preach at the Temple of Krust...and hopefully one of these days we will incorporate the Cult of the Healthy Purse.

But maybe it wasn`t such a bad idea since I had an 8th place out of 900 people on Uniwersity Entry exams( faculty of law).

If I were Chaotic Evil I would advocate assassinating those seven to gain the coveted top spot. But alas I am Lawful Good. Ah well.

Anyway I am finally back, and quite surprised that Immortal`s Handbook isn`t yet finished.

If only I'd had someone take my computer (or at least the messageboards) away to help me study.

But I am quite sure it will be worth the waiting!

You can GUARAN-DAMN-TEE it!

 

[Melkor Lord Of ALL!]

Re: Should I revise the Angels?

Hi all!

I don't yet own 3.5 (until Tuesday) but I am privy to many of the details.

Suffice to say the myriad demons and devils have been greatly augmented with the Balor and Pit Fiend now representing entry level Quasi-deities and virtually on a par with the Solar while at the same time leaving the Planetar lagging behind.

Personally I am in favour of this boost; but not at the expense of the stagnation of the Angels, or at the very least it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. As I mentioned on another board; "I remember when the Planetar was more powerful than Orcus!"- now it could be punked out by a Marilith.

One the one hand this could just be the sour grapes talking and I should just wipe away the tears of nostalgia and take my lumps. But on the other; in the bygone era of AD&D (1st Edition obviously) there was a method behind the madness of the outer planes and its inhabitants (and their respective hierarchies) that is all too sadly lacking in todays sterilised D&D rulebooks (and by that I mean a lack of cross-pollenation and by extension a respect for the other books).

Part of me is tempted to return the Planetar and Solar to their former glory in the Immortals Handbook but another part of me says just let it be and detail your own Angels to fill that void thus avoiding the confusion of giving people two Planetars and two Solars...



Any comments?

Should I just say no to revising them and leave the past in the past?

Actually I am not convinced upon good creatures being more powerful than evil ones in similar category, the most prominent examples being outsiders and dragons, but also sphinxes or nagas. My main reason is that good beings will unite to face an evil threat while those of evil alignments will fight among each other as often, if not more, as versus the followers of Light, look at The Blood War for a great example.
The same might be true concerning Deities, the usual aproach is to have similar number of Gods of any alignment on the same power level so they would balance each other, yet good and neutral ones would most likely jointly interfere when one of The Deities of Darkness threatens the balance. Example using Faerunian Pantheon: let`s say that Shar comes with a very nasty, Faerun shaking plot. In such case Lathander, Tyr, Silvanus, Helm etc. will likely ally to counter it, while I don`t see Bane, Talos and Cyric aiding Shar in any reliable manner unless the plan to backstab her which gives good guys a huge advantage. This is why The Pantheon I am currently creating has 4 evil, 2 neutral and only one good Deity.

 

[Bjorn Doneerson]

I have not yet decided if these three greater-still ranks, which comprise the esoteric Over-Choir; collectively refered to as the "Huper Ouranioi" (which roughly translated means Super Celestials) will be detailed in the Immortals Handbook (I have every rank up to and including the Seraphim).

I'd like to see them, unless it takes too much time. At least tell us what they are or where you stumbled upon them.

When you have monsters that can summon beings more powerful than Ao its probably time to draw the line...then again.

I thought the whole point of this thing was not to draw any lines. There's people who wanted to stop with Greater Gods and say everything above that was beyond statting, but you said NO! and went on. Don't draw any lines! No limits! Keep going, my man! Ummm...yeah..alright this inspirational speech is over.

 

[Impeesa]

What, is there a burning need among the gaming community for creatures who devour nothingness and crap out the essence of existance, creating whole universes as a byproduct of their breakfast?


...yes.

--Impeesa--

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Re: Should I revise the Angels?

Hello again mate!

Actually I am not convinced upon good creatures being more powerful than evil ones in similar category,

Never suggested they should be.

The question is why are Planetars and Solars now in the same category as Balors when previously they were the good aligned peers of Demon Lords/Dukes of Hell and Demon Princes/Archdevils respectively.

the most prominent examples being outsiders and dragons, but also sphinxes or nagas.

The Outsiders point was previously incorrect (see my initial comments above); the Dragons are pretty much staggered in power evil-good-evil-good etc. in ascending order; point taken regarding Sphinxes and Nagas - though you could probably make a case that their are far more evil monsters so the good ones need to be stronger to survive.

My main reason is that good beings will unite to face an evil threat while those of evil alignments will fight among each other as often, if not more, as versus the followers of Light, look at The Blood War for a great example.

Indeed.

The same might be true concerning Deities, the usual aproach is to have similar number of Gods of any alignment on the same power level so they would balance each other, yet good and neutral ones would most likely jointly interfere when one of The Deities of Darkness threatens the balance. Example using Faerunian Pantheon: let`s say that Shar comes with a very nasty, Faerun shaking plot. In such case Lathander, Tyr, Silvanus, Helm etc. will likely ally to counter it, while I don`t see Bane, Talos and Cyric aiding Shar in any reliable manner unless the plan to backstab her which gives good guys a huge advantage. This is why The Pantheon I am currently creating has 4 evil, 2 neutral and only one good Deity.

Ouch.