immortals handbook

[Anubis]

Those monsters sound cool. Could you stat them out?

Also, UK seems unable to post at the moment, but he says it's temporary.

 

[Tywyll]

How do you handle...

Here is my question about the Immortal Guidebook, and I admit that this might have been answered somewhere else, but with 30+ pages of posts, I will never find it.

How do you deal with the disparity between characters and creatures modierfiers to hit and saves at extreme levels? I have run some high level stuff, both epic and my normal year and a half campaign hitting the 15-18 area. The issue I found was the monsters and characters became extremely focused. This was because the random element, the d20, only had 20 potential results. So I had the issue where monsters either could never hit, but their special abilities might be useful, or in order to hit, no one could make the saves versus their special abilities. In a group we were playing around with recently (25th level) its almost impossible to find creatures that are challenging without completely hosing other characters in the group. Its almost all or nothing.

How will your material handle what is, to me, a fundemental flaw of high level gaming?

 

[Anubis]

Here is my question about the Immortal Guidebook, and I admit that this might have been answered somewhere else, but with 30+ pages of posts, I will never find it.

How do you deal with the disparity between characters and creatures modierfiers to hit and saves at extreme levels? I have run some high level stuff, both epic and my normal year and a half campaign hitting the 15-18 area. The issue I found was the monsters and characters became extremely focused. This was because the random element, the d20, only had 20 potential results. So I had the issue where monsters either could never hit, but their special abilities might be useful, or in order to hit, no one could make the saves versus their special abilities. In a group we were playing around with recently (25th level) its almost impossible to find creatures that are challenging without completely hosing other characters in the group. Its almost all or nothing.

How will your material handle what is, to me, a fundemental flaw of high level gaming?

I can answer this. Due to the nature of the CR/EL relationship, creatures within the PCs' CR/EL range should fit pretty well with the level of challenge that should be represented.

Please note, however, and this is from me, that at high levels, you have three specific things you MUST simply live with:

1) PCs and creatures that are supposed to be in melee will probably always hit with almost no exceptions.

2) Saving throws stay pretty even, but more often than not, saves will likely be easy to make for both PCs and creatures.

3) In high-level games, battles boil down to who lasts the longest (like in a video game RPG) and drift away from the issue of who may hit first or fail a save first.

Also, please note that while an EL+4 is a 50/50 challenge at lower levels, it may favor monsters at higher levels, depending on the equipment of PCs. Things should not vary too much, however. As long as you remember the above three precepts, you should be okay. There is no mechanical way to keep the "randomness" in the game using the d20 because eventually stats will override almost every single roll made. Thankfully, as the DM, you are able to create monsters/NPCs that have suitable stats for every encounter. Even the ELH states that the randomness should disappear at epic levels, replace solely by DM discretion. There simply is no way to stop this no matter what system you use.

Anyway, I think that should answer your question.

 

[Anubis]

UK, there is one more important thing you should take care of before releasing the final PDF and Immortal's Handbook: TRAPS.

Traps have CR or EL, but there is no clear way to figure out whether the numbers are right or not. Currently, I just use the current CR numbers as EL, but I'm not so sure this is accurate. You should detail a system to determine CR/EL for traps.

 

[Anabstercorian]

Alright, I'll try and give a very basic stat block to the paradoxia. There won't be much in the way of hard numbers, though, I don't have the time.

Paradoxia

A Paradoxia appears as a 10 foot tall humanoid with reflective hematite skin. Its head has an identical face on the front and back. It can shift its feet in either direction. They are genderless. Frequently, one set of arms will wield a weapon and shield, and the other set will cast spells.

HD: 60 (Somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 hit points.)
AC: (Pretty high, largely due to vast insight bonuses. A 40th level fighter could hit them reliably, and a 40th level cleric/rogue type who focused on violence would hit frequently.)
Attacks: They can strike armed or unarmed, and generally never miss, thanks to being under what is effectively a continuous True Strike effect. Their CR should be calculated as though a Paradoxia will only miss on a natural 1. An unarmed strike from a paradoxia knocks the target in to the future a number of rounds equal to the points of damage inflicted divided by six. Average damage from one of their strikes is about 40 points of impact damage plus 20 or so points of temporal friction damage.
Speed: Only about 50 feet, but they can use their Dual Actions ability to travel a full 400 feet in a round if they have to.
Saves: Very good. Thanks to their immunities, they rarely have to make saves of any significance.
Special Qualities: Their Paradoxial special quality serves as a continuous death ward for them, and their two faces give them Dual Actions, like Demigorgon. Additionally, they are never caught flatfooted or surprised. They are incapable of gaining experience points, but may 'spend' from a virtual pool of 10,000 experience points that refreshes itself every day. They do not breathe, eat, or drink.
Special Attacks: They can emulate any divination spell of 4th level or lower at will as a free action as an extraordinary ability with a 'caster level' of 60. Additionally, their strikes do the whole knock you forward in time thing. They can also travel in time at will, but have no fine control - They always travel at least 50 years, and generally wind up from 50% to 150% off.
Abilities: Paradoxia are impossibly strong, around in the 70's. Their other physical skills are average, but their mental stats are phenomonal.
Skills: Lacking flight, they make up for it with very high movement skills that allow them to literally walk on water or leap dozens of feet in the air to face their foes.
Alignment: Any. There are nine, each of which with the respective alignment.

 

[Upper_Krust]

FINALLY...THE KRUST HAS COME BACK...TO EN...WORLD

Normal service will be resumed shortly.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Bjorn mate!

Acchhh!!! At the same time I feel compelled to save money and attempt to buy all the products mentioned... I think I'm about to rob myself blind....I almost resisted too. Right up until the word Qlippoth...Argghh...torn between wanting to kill Krust and shake his hand. Probably wisest to do neither. Self Narration ending....

I'll try and stagger the releases so as not to hurt your pocket too much.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Anabstercorian mate!

I have ideas and I have no choice but to share them... >.<

Fire away!

Star Bearer: These Collosal Elementals are created entirely out of the stuff of stars, and as such burn brighter than the fires of the elemental plane. Their very presence can turn forests to ash and irradiate planets, and while on the surface of the sun they can trigger solar flares, sun spots, or even novae.

I have an idea not a million miles away from this pencilled for the additional Monster Supplement I hinted at.

Apocalypse Warriors: Once there were hundreds of thousands, but they fought amongst themselves until only ten remained. These last few are unstoppable warriors, sworn champions of the Cosmic Powers of Death, beyond even the greatest of deities worshipped by man. Through blade and hate, they purge entire planets of life, leaving only barren rock behind them.

This actually sounds like a more powerful version of an idea I sent to S&SS for their Creature Collection 3. Although I think even the 'not quite so powerful' version I sent them was still too powerful for that books contents. As such I have it pencilled in for the additional Monster Supplement.

The Juggernaut of Agony: A living being of Giger-esque madness the size of a small mountain, prowling the Plain of Shadows and preying upon the myriad worlds of the universe, sending foul children forth to sow war and torment that create echoes for the mammoth obscenity to feed upon.

Interesting description though I am none the wiser as to what exactly it does...sends out peices of itself (the aforementioned children)...and feeds off the torment they create. Is that it?

I have a plant based Abomination (misbegotten offspring of a Nature Deity) that has a really cool ability which in a completely roundabout way sounds something similar.

Paradoxia: Paradoxia are very strange creatures that exist in causal loops. They were never actually created - They simply travel through time at will, finally returning to the point they started from and repeating the process forever. This grants them enormous insight, as they have literally already fought any battle they are in an infinite number of times, and they also cannot be truly killed - But slaying a paradoxia prevents it from manifesting in the timestream for another ten thousand years. (Inspired by Stephen Baxter's Vacuum Diagrams, which is really awesomely cool.)

Interesting idea, I have a number of time based creatures in the IH but none with this particular take on it.

 

[Bjorn Doneerson]

I'll try and stagger the releases so as not to hurt your pocket too much.

Well, that's very kind of you, but I don't have any steady income, so it doesn't matter.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again mate!

No, this is the sort of thing I'd throw at my players, if I could find any. Mostly I'm the player myself - Largely because the other gamers around where I live find the idea of a game like that a little silly.

The Apocalypse Warriors are blatant ripoffs of the Saiya-Jin. The Star Bearers are a product of my own creation from the 3rd IR. The Juggernaut of Agony was inspired by www.giger.com.

And here's more.

Iron Elemental - Essentially an earth elemental only more so, the iron elemental is composed entirely out of pure, unpolluted iron, and, given that it's the size of a small house, is virtually invulnerable and has the strength of a small army. It has no great magic power, only raw strength and nearly limitless endurance.

I have a handful of Elementals in the IH which I think you will all find interesting; including one from the Far Realm...which is actually the least interesting I think.

Glasshiv - Tiny psionic constructs about the size of a man's finger, shaped like shards of glass and sharp enough to shave with, glasshivs come in swarms of twenty to forty, fly as elegantly as hummingbirds and with the speed of hawks, and can reduce a man to a skeleton wrapped in pulpy meat within one second when they work together.

Very interesting indeed.

Rawzir (RAH-zeer) - These foul sounds echo through the endless howls of pandemonium until they can find prey, upon which they manifest in to a disembodied set of eyes and mouth composed of scintillating sonic force and shred them to pieces.

There is already a monster (template actually) something like this in the IH.