Immunity to Polymorphing?

[kreynolds]

So how do you (or anybody) resolve the conflict between that and the "Voluntarily giving up a saving throw" language?

Actually, I don't see a corelation between the two. I'll try to explain why.

Is this a case of good Sage Advice for a specific situation causing complications when applied generally?

Well, I haven't run into any problems by applying it generally yet. We all know that SR can be lowered. Magic immunity, according to the sage, is treated as unbeatable SR in regards to what spells can effect it. But is it actually SR? No. So, can it be lowered? No. Does it interfere with your own castings? No, because in regards to what spells it effects, it never effects your own castings.

Invariably, however, you will run into the occassional spell that should technically effect a creature with magic immunity, like the Maze spell and a Golem, but that doesn't really make sense, but that's why the Sage said to use "your own excellent judgement".

Please, don't forget though, this is just my opinion based upon his ruling.

 

[Dingleberry]

Sorry - I should've been more specific. The conflict is in timing: if an immunity is treated as unbeatable SR, it takes a standard action to lower it (as hong correctly stated). If, however, you can suppress an immunity as you can voluntarily give up a saving throw (per PHB), it shouldn't take a standard action.

Let me provide an example of why this could be an important issue: a wizard tries to polymorph other a friendly needlefolk (who is in the middle of a wicked melee with something nasty) in order to give the needlefolk some healing and turn it into, say, a dire ape. Recalling that the needlefolk is a plant and therefore immune to polymorphing, the wizard's spell will be wasted if the immunity is like spell resistance and the needlefolk hasn't taken a standard action to lower it (it would rather take another swipe at its opponent). If, however, the needlefolk can voluntarily give up his immunity like a non-immune creature could give up its saving throw, he gets the magical goodness.

Thoughts?

 

[James McMurray]

IIRC, "immunity" to an effect generally means unbeatable spell resistance in 3E. You can lower your SR as a standard action, which means you can choose not to be immune to polymorph. Note that raising SR is also a standard action.

Not quite. From the SRD:

At the beginning of the creature's next turn, the creature's spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).

You can lower your SR as a standard action, but it comes back automatically unless you again use an action to continually suppress it.

 

[James McMurray]

Upon closer inspection, it looks as if getting an item, spell, or other effect that grants spell resistance for a PC may be a dangerous thing to do.

All of the curative magics I've looked at (including Heal) have a Spell REsistance: Yes (Harmless) entry. That means you have to take a standard action to be guaranteed a beneficial effect from them if you have SR. Could be pretty rough if you're in a fight and need healing fast.

Other beneficial Spells that have SR applicable include Haste, Bull's Strength (etc.), Freedom of Movement, Spell Immunity, Death Ward, and even Spell Resistance itself.

 

[hong]

Sorry - I should've been more specific. The conflict is in timing: if an immunity is treated as unbeatable SR, it takes a standard action to lower it (as hong correctly stated). If, however, you can suppress an immunity as you can voluntarily give up a saving throw (per PHB), it shouldn't take a standard action.

But you can't suppress an immunity as you can voluntarily give up a saving throw. Saves are different to SR.

A rogue can choose to stand there and not make a save from a fireball spell (if he wants to, for some strange reason). This doesn't mean he's given up his immunity to the fireball, because he wasn't immune in the first place. He's just allowing himself to be more exposed than normal.

 

[kreynolds]

Sorry - I should've been more specific. The conflict is in timing: if an immunity is treated as unbeatable SR, it takes a standard action to lower it (as hong correctly stated). If, however, you can suppress an immunity as you can voluntarily give up a saving throw (per PHB), it shouldn't take a standard action.

Well, my viewpoint is that Magic Immunity is not treated in all ways like spell resistance. It is treated as spell resistance in regards to spells that can be effected by it. So, it can't be lowered because it is not, in fact, spell resistance. Thus, there is no comparison between the two. Like I said, that's just my opinion on the subject.

 

[Destil]

Upon closer inspection, it looks as if getting an item, spell, or other effect that grants spell resistance for a PC may be a dangerous thing to do.

All of the curative magics I've looked at (including Heal) have a Spell REsistance: Yes (Harmless) entry. That means you have to take a standard action to be guaranteed a beneficial effect from them if you have SR. Could be pretty rough if you're in a fight and need healing fast.

Other beneficial Spells that have SR applicable include Haste, Bull's Strength (etc.), Freedom of Movement, Spell Immunity, Death Ward, and even Spell Resistance itself.

Yep. A cleric who routinely fights with a monk would be well off to take Spell Penetration. Personaly I've added a feat chain that lets you drop your SR as a move equivelent action with the first feat, and a second feat that lets you drop it as a free action once per round in responce to a spell being cast... primarly based on player feedback from the last mid-level monk I DMed.

 

[Dingleberry]

But you can't suppress an immunity as you can voluntarily give up a saving throw.

According to "Voluntarily Giving Up a Saving Throw" language on page 150 of the PHB, you can. Immunities are discussed under that section (the elven sleep immunity is given as an example) rather than the "Spell Resistance" section later on the same page.

 

[hong]

According to "Voluntarily Giving Up a Saving Throw" language on page 150 of the PHB, you can. Immunities are discussed under that section (the elven sleep immunity is given as an example) rather than the "Spell Resistance" section later on the same page.

The language used is "even a character with a special resistance to magic (for example, the elf's resistance to sleep)...". Note the "even". IOW, resistance to magic such as the elf has is different to voluntarily giving up a save.