Implements as "weapons"

[Garthanos]

I think you are referring to what a classes powers are. This should have no basis on what the implement does.

Power damages are likely nerfed a little to make up for the burst or whatever effects they are combined with.... divorce that connection entirely like your hr and it well has serious implications.

I actively like the increase or decrease the dice size etc modifier method for this.

 

[Garthanos]

Though note: This would still cause some discrepancies. The 3d6 vs 2d10 example for example mentioned earlier still applies here. Similar damage as base, but 3d6+3 will be more than 2d10+2.

But I don't think that's really game-breaking.

bumping dice size....

3d6 becomes 3d8
2d10 becomes 2d12

 

[willows]

So, I'm wondering about basic implement attacks. This can allow implement users to take opportunity attacks more often, particularly staff users that usually have both their hands full.

How does this affect class balance?

(I'd suggest, also, that implement and weapon status aren't normally compatible without special equipment status (like magical enhancment or whatever 4e's masterwork property is like), because although it's funny to have warlocks bonking people over the heads with rods, it's less awesome than if they're shooting rune lasers or whatever with them.)

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

bumping dice size....

3d6 becomes 3d8
2d10 becomes 2d12

Too complicated, in my opinion.

 

[Garthanos]

So, I'm wondering about basic implement attacks. This can allow implement users to take opportunity attacks more often, particularly staff users that usually have both their hands full.

Wizards and Warlocks already have spells which act as basic ranged attacks? I dont get your question? Why would the damage rating etc do anything unless you had an ability associated allowing you to use the implement in that context... ie if you couldnt use it as an opportunity attack you still cant.

 

[Garthanos]

The balance here would be to lower the damage down by one step.

So I have to modify things in multiple places?? I have to adjust the damage at every power selectively based on its other associated bonuses? ... might as well just have the implement act as a modifier... simpler and keeps it slightly distinct from the weapons and lets me keep approximately the current balance.

If you want wizards to get a little more oomph I think you need might need to address that more directly instead of forcing a rebalance calculation for every spell.

 

[Garthanos]

Too complicated, in my opinion.

right -- I do it once its on the spell card and I never think about it.. as a plus on the roll It adds another addition to remember every use...

 

[Sadrik]

My problem with this is that different powers use different dice. A power that does 2d10 and a power that does 3d6 do almost the same damage. With this system and a staff, the first would do 4d6 and the later do 6d6.

This is fair analysis, this goes on with weapon wielders of big weapons too. a 3[W] power adds +7 damage over a 2[W] power, it would in this case as well for those that would wield a staff (big weapon).

 

[Sadrik]

Improvised: no modifiers
Staff: +1 damage (or maybe: Property - +1 to blast/burst?)
Orb: +5 range
Wand: -1 damage, +1 attack, +5 range
Tome: +1 attack
Rod: +1 damage
Heavy Blade: +1 damage
Light Blade (including Pact Blade): +1 attack
Holy Symbol: Property - Does not need to be wielded in hand.
Totem: Property - Brutal

Interesting way to approach this. The range property does not work imho because some powers are very close range and some are far range and the +5 disproportional affects the lower range powers. You could fix it by scaling it range 5 or +1, range 10 +2, range 20 +5 etc. The others effects feel bland, another +1 to damage...

 

[Sadrik]

So I have to modify things in multiple places?? I have to adjust the damage at every power selectively based on its other associated bonuses? ... might as well just have the implement act as a modifier... simpler and keeps it slightly distinct from the weapons and lets me keep approximately the current balance.

If you want wizards to get a little more oomph I think you need might need to address that more directly instead of forcing a rebalance calculation for every spell.

What I meant was lowering the damage of the implements by one step. But when I actually do it, it needs to stay within a certain range because clerics should do d8s and warlocks should do d10s and wizards should do 2d4 with the wand and orb should be d8 and the two two-handed items (staff and tome) should be above that. In fact I did lower them down one step in the below example. I don't favor the lowering though because it give little room to make superior implements.

Example Superior Implements
Forked Wand - as normal but 1d10 and +1 to attacks with thunder spells
Gnarled Staff - 2d6, Brutal 1
Bejeweled Staff - 1d12, +1 Proficiency
Correlon's Holy Symbol - 1d8, Proficiency +1
etc.

Implements
Improvised 1d4, one handed, Proficiency +0
Holy Symbol 1d8, no hands needed, Proficiency +0, Divine group
Orb 1d8, one handed, Proficiency +1, Arcane group
Pact Blade 1d8, off handed, Proficiency +1, counts as dagger weapon, Arcane group
Rod 1d10, off handed, Proficiency +0, counts as club weapon, Arcane group
Staff 1d12, two handed, Proficiency +0, counts as quarterstaff weapon, Arcane group
Tome 1d10, two handed, Proficiency +0, Arcane group
Wand 2d4, off handed, Proficiency +1, Arcane group