Importance of Magic Items

[officeronin]

I think anyone that has put up with listening to me long enough knows that one of my biggest complaints about 3E is that magic items are a given, and even a necessity. Sure, they're important and neat to have, but the game is skewed so that characters HAVE to have them to succeed at high levels. I think that stinks. It can be worked around, but it takes a lot of tweaking.

It would be impossible to write a module that would be challenging for 12th level PCs with bunches of magic items while being survivable for 12th level PCs without magic items. I don't mind that WotC thought ahead on this issue, and provided a baseline...

Here's a troll for you all... What ECL would be appropriate for 12th level PCs who are stocked only with non-magical equipment? How about half the "book value" of gear? How about double the "book value"? How about nude?

OfficeRonin

 

[diaglo]

I'm not giving up my Father's bow or my Grandfather's Sword. They are family heirlooms. And hopefully I will win fame with them.

Neither is magical.

 

[d20Dwarf]

I know I'm pimping Midnight this way and that, but I figured I'd chime in here. In Midnight there are items called covenant items that each have a unique history and they grow more powerful as their wielders do, which links items to those who wield them in a meaningful way. I felt that since it was a world in which magic was both rare and dangerous to possess, that characters should have one item that could continue to "wow" them throughout their careers.

On topic, I prefer games where magic is rare to moderately available, and I think named items are much cooler than longsword +1.

 

[KnowTheToe]

I personally think that longsword +1 is the coolest, it is inspiring to the imagination and inspirational to the character. Anyway, now that I dumped that load of crud....

I am amazed at the amount of distaste for the commonality of magic items. Bravo, I agree, they are fun, but if you can get them too easily they do not mean much. I am thinking of running my next campaign with low magic and action dice to simulate some of the lost bonuses from lower magic.

 

[Skade]

While I agree that signature items are much cooler, I also like Heward's Handy Haversack, and believe it can be a signature item.

Loremistress Penelope quested to recover lost knowledge. Having little strength, she was able to carry many formerly lost tomes due to her Haversack -- it was her favorite item, and she eventually doubled it's capacity.

Here's another signature item for your perusal:

Razorstorm -- +1 glaive, surestriking, unbreakable (we ruled this a +1 enchantment). This glaive was "stone shaped" out of glassy volcanic rock, both head and shaft, by Brother Alfonzo Derriga (priest) for his cellmate Teleela Samothen (fighter/paladin) during the 3 years they were political prisoners in the nightmarish Razor Keep prison (think Count of Monte Cristo). It was held aloft while leading the human militia during the Battle of the Seventeen Banners, struck down the Wrym of the Karkisch Swamp, held off the creatures from the gate of ice while it was being closed, and, finally, threw down the sinister advisor to the Emperor, Geoff Lungren, during his attempt at a coup.

OfficeRonin

Love it. Great item, and great story.

I didn't mean to imply HHH was JUST a utility item, just that it became one for me. It is essential to the Loremistress named, and very cool in that situation.

I'm not even adverse to having magic items prevalent in the game, to an extent. I just prefer for each item to be meaningful. I dislike Diablo-ism in my games. When a PC starts to trade in old magic items for new ones I feel I have made a mistake somewhere. I would prefer them be handed down to underlings, or displayed as trophies, or something. I just don;t want to see them teleporting back to town to sell/buy items.

 

[kengar]

I dislike Diablo-ism in my games. When a PC starts to trade in old magic items for new ones I feel I have made a mistake somewhere. I would prefer them be handed down to underlings, or displayed as trophies, or something. I just don't want to see them teleporting back to town to sell/buy items.

hear, hear!

This is absolutley my biggest problem with the way magic items get handled in "standard" 3e. Because they are so integral to character power levels, their values and creation have been "over-standardized". As a result, the players see that +2 Scimitar as a "down payment" on the item that they really want, not as a cool item in its own right.

I have changed how I handle magic items in my game and find it works better for me. Gone are the magic shops and wizards-for-hire to make custom items. The party still gets magic items, they just know that if they want to sell them, they aren't going to be able to just turn around and buy something else.

If they want ready access to custom items, then they need to become a spellcaster and start taking the feats. Also, the materials cost for many items is now no longer simply X gold pieces. Sometimes materials are rare and getting a hold of them needs to be played out.

 

[Petrosian]

One of the issues with magic items and their rare and wondrous nature or the lack f it is the level of fantastic magic in the world.

A named +1 langsword is not gonna inspire ooohs and ahhhs when the cleric, the wizard and the druid have been casting magic weapon and shillelegh spells since low level.

Golden winged sandals might have been mythically wondrous for some but half their party did not toss fly spells and hover there bored while the sandals were put on.

Whats a +3 sword with keen edge? A wondrous relic suitable of name and legend? No. its a pair of spells throw by a 9th level sorcerer.

When half your "standard party" is throwing spells like fly, fireball, invisibility, GMW and their ilk and raising people from the dead, what is normally thought of as magic weapons of wondrous nature become "normal"... instead of asking bobbi the mage we just say the command word.

IMO, restoring the wonder of magic items should have to start first with restoring the wonder of magic, and that means the basic removal of the spell casting classes or something equally drastic.

When my mage can cast mass fly, a flying carpet is no wondrous find.

 

[Alchemist]

Woo-hoo!

I dig that magic ring. My players won't know what hit them.

I'm going to chime in on the disposability of magic items. I dislike the effect it has on my game for many of the same reasons already expressed, Diablo-ism and the artificial inflation of the character being the most telling to me.

I think that scaling back both the access to the items that would make a character "perfect" and magic in general is the response. If there's no easy way to trade up, that +2 Scimitar isn't a downpayment. And if it's a growth item, there's no incentive to trade up anyways.

As always, spellcasters have to be geared back or it will all fall apart sooner or later. A low magic DM's work is never done.

 

[Number47]

A simple way to add wonder back into magic items is to have even a common +1 sword also have a minor power that cannot be duplicated by magic, at least not easily. It adds flavor and keeps the sword better than a Magic Weapon spell on a normal sword, without really increasing it's cash value much.