D&D 5E Improved Arcana: Psionics and the Mystic revisited

[Erechel]

After the last week uploading of the Mystic Unearthed Arcana to the DMs Guild, thus making it semi-official, I revised why I didn't liked the mystic in their last installation. I made a long, thorough revision of it and I've attempted to balance it. I first begin to make real quick editions, such as limiting the amount of times a Psychic focus could be changed to short rests, and also making Mystical recovery linked to the Order's Disciplines. Then, I've noticed that it was something off in the mystic. There were many features without sinergy with each other, and many features with stacking madness, not to mention the lack of anything like a telekinetic and its replacement by the really odd wu jen, which don't really work as a psionic as much as a wizard, and the really weak, one-trick pony order of the Soulblade, more a shoehorned warrior than a psion.

So I've used the Unearthed Arcana as a base to work. And I've made many subtle (and not so subtle) changes to it, without derailing the base of it. And I've uploaded the file to the DMs Guild. Its free. It's not even Pay what you want. Is a 40 pages free file build on the mystic.

There is the Link.

Changes:

• Soulblade moved to Fighter Archetypes, instead of a psychic order, and rebalanced. Now they can use their powers on a modified weapon, called the Kindred Weapon, instead of relying only on a single fight style, so they can be used as strength characters too.
• Order of the Far Hand added. Telekinesis is now more an effect than in the UA.
• Rogue's Archetype added: the Scourge, a psychic spy and assassin who gets Sneak Attack on psychic talents and doesn't leave tracks on telepathy.
• Psychic Mastery reworked. It now provides more effect options to the masters, and make permanent the Psychic focus.
• Psychic focus changes limited to 1 per short rest. Many focuses altered to fit better.
• Psi point progression revised. They now depend on Psi Dice (akin to Hit Dice) and Intelligence, to be further linked to the mystic's inner powers.
• Mystical recovery linked to the Order's disciplines and limited to 1 per short rest.
• Mystic now doesn't have light armor proficiency. "First line" psions, like the Avatar and the Immortal have their own ways to compensate for this (medium armor proficiency and Unarmored Defense).
• Psionics is now again independant fro magic. Most disciplines changed to consider the effects against it.
• Psionics now linked to the mental state of the mystic for balancing purposes. A mystic cannot use psionics anymore if it is charmed, frightned, stunned or poisoned.
• Psionic disciplines revised.
  • Toned down the damage to their equivalent level in the DMG's guidelines to spell power.
  • Highly magic dependant features, such as most Wu Jen Masteries, have been reworked. Weather Mastery partitioned as Sonogenesis (thunder) and Galvanogenesis (lighning)
  • Added Mastery effects, with Psi costs higher than 7, and linked only to their Order's disciplines. They have limited uses, as the old Psychic Mastery had, and Mastery Focus, which are permanent.
  • Most disciplines now have 3/4 "simple" effects, and a few more from Mastery.
  • Several new disciplines added, such as Psychokinesis and Living Knives.
  • Several "small bonuses" now linked to Proficiency bonus or Ability Modifiers.

There is a lot more small changes and add-ons. I've even made a few feats (Wild Talent and Mental Vault). I hope you enjoy it and say what do you liked or what do you cut off of it.

 

[Furby076]

Thanks for doing this. I will take a look in a day or so (just d/l'd it). The one issue I have is making psi points base on dice rolling. No other class requires you to roll to determine their method of gaining abilities ("attack" power). Not a single one. An unlucky player could get really gimped. Why do you think Psionics should be more limited in terms of how often they can use their powers per day? What is the game balance?

 

[SkidAce]

I like the sound of the changes from your change list.

Perhaps we will give this a try.

 

[Erechel]

Thanks for doing this. I will take a look in a day or so (just d/l'd it). The one issue I have is making psi points base on dice rolling. No other class requires you to roll to determine their method of gaining abilities ("attack" power). Not a single one. An unlucky player could get really gimped. Why do you think Psionics should be more limited in terms of how often they can use their powers per day? What is the game balance?

There is no real reason behind that except the fact that the psi point progression is clumsy and it isn't easy to remember. Have in mind that a lucky Psion would have a lot more psi points than the other casters

 

[Immoralkickass]

I got to say, I did not read through the whole thing, but on a glance, there are too many unwarranted nerfs, mostly on the damage output.

For example, Psionic Blast was nerfed from 1d8 per psi point spent to 1d4. You must be one of the many people who thought this ability was super OP due to its auto hitting nature. Magic Missiles is the similar ability, and by comparison at Lv1, MM deals 6-15 (3d4+3) damage while PB deals 2-16 (2d8) damage. So MM is still better, but you still nerfed PB to 2-8 (2d4) damage.
PB gets better at higher levels as it scales by d8, but this is offset by the fact that MM is more flexible as it can be split on as many targets as there are number of darts. MM also has higher potential damage as it can scale up to Lv9 slots for full casters, while PB only scales to Lv5. MM has 120ft range while PB only has 60 ft. Also, Force damage is a little less resisted than psychic damage.

Just on this fix alone, I can tell you don't have proper understanding of balance.

 

[Furby076]

There is no real reason behind that except the fact that the psi point progression is clumsy and it isn't easy to remember. Have in mind that a lucky Psion would have a lot more psi points than the other casters

Psi Points:
I don't understand what's clumsy or hard to remember. The current psi point system is just a fixed number, that gets modified by nothing. You write it on your sheet and it won't change until you level up. If I lose my character sheet, I just look up a chart and it shows the number. Your system requires dice rolling, which is more complex (nothing major, once a level, but still), and can gimp a player. Also, as the persons INT score changes, the psi limit changes. This change removes balance (potentially gimping an unlucky player) and introduces complexity (dice rolling and variable int score). Based on this comment "there is no real reason behind..." then I don't see a change being warranted. Ideally, making a change is based on a need, and there should be reasons

Psi Limit: This makes sense...it allows continued progression. In the current system I can see many people saying "level 9, now time to become another class"

Potent Psionics: Makes more sense. The original power is only really useful for Psi-blades. I can't see a psionic using a simple weapon over their talents

Psionic Mastery: The original is a little bit less useful with continued progression of psi limits. I worry this new version is too strong. You can have up to 4 psychic focus effects simultaneously. THere can be some abuse with this.

Awakened Mystic
Psionic Investigation: Frankly, I think the final power---tagging an item to track it -- needs it's duration increased. 24 hours doesn't seem like it's enough. Thoughts?

Psionic Surge: Do you think this is a bonus action? Or free action?


You did an amazing job - it takes a lot of effort to do this (i spent months building the mystic in Herolab so understand the pain). Unfortunately, I cannot invest time right now to look at it all and do a side by side. Do you have a list (excel) where it shows what was changed and what is the same?

 

[Erechel]

I got to say, I did not read through the whole thing, but on a glance, there are too many unwarranted nerfs, mostly on the damage output.

For example, Psionic Blast was nerfed from 1d8 per psi point spent to 1d4. You must be one of the many people who thought this ability was super OP due to its auto hitting nature. Magic Missiles is the similar ability, and by comparison at Lv1, MM deals 6-15 (3d4+3) damage while PB deals 2-16 (2d8) damage. So MM is still better, but you still nerfed PB to 2-8 (2d4) damage.
PB gets better at higher levels as it scales by d8, but this is offset by the fact that MM is more flexible as it can be split on as many targets as there are number of darts. MM also has higher potential damage as it can scale up to Lv9 slots for full casters, while PB only scales to Lv5. MM has 120ft range while PB only has 60 ft. Also, Force damage is a little less resisted than psychic damage.

Just on this fix alone, I can tell you don't have proper understanding of balance.

As you said, it was just a quick glance. And how is your "proper understanding of balance"? This is basically a cantrip, you know? And it has no save, no attack roll. Just unlimited damage.

AS for balancing purposes, I've used a very simple guideline: the DMG. The DMG assumes certain damage based on level of the spell. If the spell has no save, the damage falls down. If the spell has a save for half damage, it is the listed. A spell with an effect that surpasses all defenses is a big one.

Most of my damage reductions are based on the DMG guidelines. This one isn't, because it is an auto-hit, so I nerfed it two steps. I considered to leave it at 1d6 (as the multiple targets guidelines), but I declined, because there are other cantrips with that damage, and they still have saving throws. Heck, even the all-praised Vicious Mockery damage is 1d4, and it has a powerful effect (disadvantage on the next attack), but it has a save. Maybe you don't have the "proper understanding on balance" that you claim.

 

[Erechel]

I don't really have an excell. I just made it on a word file, but I've made some basic assumptions. All the changes are listed on the DMs Guild page.
Among the most common changes, maybe the one of damage equated to the DMG guides. All psionic disciplines are more powerful than than guidelines advise. When the effect is specially powerful, I've reduced the damage further.
About Psychic Mastery, I know that it could be powerful, but keep in mind that it has to be powerful, as they are powers above 11th level, and they are gained sparsely. They also are locked to the Order they belong, so no crazy stacking of Immortal and Far Hand disciplines, and most psychic focuses are nerfed (such as the Adaptative Body one, the main offender, in my thought)

 

[Furby076]

As you said, it was just a quick glance. And how is your "proper understanding of balance"? This is basically a cantrip, you know? And it has no save, no attack roll. Just unlimited damage.

Sorry, i know this is chat you are having with someone else, but Psionic Blast is not a cantrip. It's a primary power (points 1-7). I agree it's a bit weird, and different that it's d8 auto hit and no save, but does that really make it broken? At 7 psi points that's 7d8 damage. This requires at least a level 9 mystic, which is the most powerful a mystic will ever get. A level 9 wizard casts 5th level spells.

The below spells all have saves or attacks required, but do other things then just a one shot direct damage

• Bigbys hand: Clenched fist doing 4d8 damage, and can do it up to 10 times. Even if you only hit half the time, that's 20d8 damage. Then it has the other potential abilities with controlling factor
• CLoudkill: Area effect dealing 5d8 poison, up to 10 times
• Cone of cold: THe closest spell...8d8 damage in a cone

SO the above all have saves, but they either impact more creatures, do more damage over time or have additional effects. Plus, they can be increased with better spell slots

AS for balancing purposes, I've used a very simple guideline: the DMG. The DMG assumes certain damage based on level of the spell. If the spell has no save, the damage falls down. If the spell has a save for half damage, it is the listed. A spell with an effect that surpasses all defenses is a big one

Most of my damage reductions are based on the DMG guidelines. This one isn't, because it is an auto-hit, so I nerfed it two steps. I considered to leave it at 1d6 (as the multiple targets guidelines), but I declined, because there are other cantrips with that damage, and they still have saving throws. Heck, even the all-praised Vicious Mockery damage is 1d4, and it has a powerful effect (disadvantage on the next attack), but it has a save. Maybe you don't have the "proper understanding on balance" that you claim.

Can you link to this DM page of recommendations?

I don't really have an excell. I just made it on a word file, but I've made some basic assumptions. All the changes are listed on the DMs Guild page.
Among the most common changes, maybe the one of damage equated to the DMG guides. All psionic disciplines are more powerful than than guidelines advise. When the effect is specially powerful, I've reduced the damage further.
About Psychic Mastery, I know that it could be powerful, but keep in mind that it has to be powerful, as they are powers above 11th level, and they are gained sparsely. They also are locked to the Order they belong, so no crazy stacking of Immortal and Far Hand disciplines, and most psychic focuses are nerfed (such as the Adaptative Body one, the main offender, in my thought)

THanks for the clarification, I'll take a look sometimes. Just time consuming since we have to read each class ability and each power to see if there are any changes. I don't agree with all of them, but hey, it's your game

 

[Immoralkickass]

As you said, it was just a quick glance. And how is your "proper understanding of balance"? This is basically a cantrip, you know? And it has no save, no attack roll. Just unlimited damage.

AS for balancing purposes, I've used a very simple guideline: the DMG. The DMG assumes certain damage based on level of the spell. If the spell has no save, the damage falls down. If the spell has a save for half damage, it is the listed. A spell with an effect that surpasses all defenses is a big one.

Most of my damage reductions are based on the DMG guidelines. This one isn't, because it is an auto-hit, so I nerfed it two steps. I considered to leave it at 1d6 (as the multiple targets guidelines), but I declined, because there are other cantrips with that damage, and they still have saving throws. Heck, even the all-praised Vicious Mockery damage is 1d4, and it has a powerful effect (disadvantage on the next attack), but it has a save. Maybe you don't have the "proper understanding on balance" that you claim.

My understanding of balance? Better than you to know that its not a cantrip. I'm starting to wonder if you even understand the class at all. Mystic's cantrips are Talents, and they are always separate from Disciplines.

Using the DMG as a guide is not wrong, but IMO the first thing you should do when judging the balance of something is the compare a similar existing version in the PHB/splatbook. This gives a better idea because even WoTC themselves don't really follow the guide. For example, a homebrew Iceball spell that deals 8d6 ice damage would be overpowered by DMG guideline standards, but if its just a ice version of the existing Fireball spell, how is it considered OP?

Someone has already done the math at reddit to prove that nerfing it to d6 would somewhat bring it in line with Magic Missiles, the original auto-hit spell in the PHB. Scroll down a bit to find the table. The scaling is a bit weird, as the d8 version would be quite similar to MM in the first 2 levels, but PB pulls ahead later on. https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedA...the_psionic_handbook_tweaking_the_mystic_and/