Improved Combat throw..provoke AoO?

[Tellerve]

On the trip that you get from someone missing with Improved Combat Throw, do you yourself provoke an AoO when doing the trip?

thanks,

Tellerve

p.s. On a mildly related topic. If you provoke an AoO for doing something...ohh, say trying to use a gun in a threatened area, and someone tries to disarm you. They get a AoO against you, and let's say they miss, and you successfully disarm the gun. Does that person, who is now disarmed, still get an action? Or did they use it and tough luck they lost it in the struggle?

 

[WaterRabbit]

Since Improved Trip is not a prerequisite for the feat, it looks like your trip attempt does provoke an AoO.

If you succeed in your disarm, it ends your opponent's action. There is not mechanism for them to abort to another action.

 

[Tellerve]

a'ight, cool, that's what I thought, but I guess I was more 51% than for sure as just seems ambiguous.

About the disarm thing, good to know, again that was my gut feeling, but wanted to make sure from other people's opinion.

Tellerve

EDIT: Forgot to add this question. So, when the guy provokes an AoO for firing in melee and I provoke an AoO for disarming him, can his attack against me be with the gun (ie firing at me?)

 

[WaterRabbit]

Here is my understanding:

1) Person A shoots gun while threatened draws AoO

2) Person B attempts Disarm as his AoO. Doesn't have Improved Disarm, so draws AoO from person A.

3) Person A may pistol whip Person B as his AoO, if he has any AoO left. When the disarm attempt is made it will be versus a melee weapon. Note: If person A is unable or chooses not to make an AoO the disarm attempt will be resolved versus a ranged weapon. See page 152 of d20 Modern.

4) Pistol whip is resolved.

5) Disarm is resolved.

6) If person A still has gun, shot is resolved.

If you look on pg. 138 of d20 Modern, it clearly states that only melee and unarmed attacks (an only if they count as armed attacks) can be used to perform an AoO. An AoO is a single melee attack and you can only make one per round (EXC: Combat Reflexes). A character is not required to make an AoO.

In Bullet Points: Player Tactics Part II, Ryan give the following answers:

Question: Most guns can be used as melee weapons by making a pistol whip or rifle butt attack. What kind of action is it to switch from ranged attack mode to melee attack mode? Can my hero make attacks of opportunity with her firearm?

Answer: Switching modes is not an action. A character can do it freely at any time. So if your hero is armed with a longarm, she can make a rifle butt attack if someone provokes an attack of opportunity in a square she threatens. Likewise, she can make a pistol whip attack with a handgun. She doesn't have to do anything special beforehand to prepare for such an attack.

Question: So if someone tries to disarm my character when he's using a firearm, he gets an attack of opportunity. According to an earlier Bullet Points question, if he last used his firearm as a melee weapon, then any disarm attempt against him uses the melee weapon rules. If someone tries to disarm him, and he makes an attack of opportunity by pistol whipping the foe, do we then use the rules for disarming melee weapons instead of ranged weapons?

Answer: Yep, that's exactly right.

Question: When do you ever use the disarm rules for ranged weapons, then?

Answer: You use them for most ranged weapons that aren't firearms, and in cases when the target is using a firearm but can't (or doesn't) make an attack of opportunity against you.

Question: How do you disarm someone when you're using a ranged weapon? In other words, how do you shoot a gun out of someone's hands?

Answer: You can't. A disarm attempt is a melee attack; you can't try to disarm someone with a ranged attack. You can, however, shoot your opponent's weapon and break it. See the rules for attacking an object on page 149 of the d20 Modern Roleplaying Game.

 

[Tellerve]

thanks again waterrabbit.

It does bring up another question though, LOL, sorry I know in dnd people always like the spiked chain or whatever reach weapon paired with improved trip so that the enemy upon moving in to attack, passing through the reach, pulls an AoO and the guy with the reach weapon uses his trip. Is this, and this is how I thought it was, to assume that any action that is a substitute for an attack action is viable for an AoO attack? Or are AoOs strictly standard attacks?

Tellerve

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

thanks again waterrabbit.

It does bring up another question though, LOL, sorry I know in dnd people always like the spiked chain or whatever reach weapon paired with improved trip so that the enemy upon moving in to attack, passing through the reach, pulls an AoO and the guy with the reach weapon uses his trip. Is this, and this is how I thought it was, to assume that any action that is a substitute for an attack action is viable for an AoO attack? Or are AoOs strictly standard attacks?

Tellerve

You can trip, disarm, etc as an AoO since those are melee attacks.

IMC you can't get an AoO if you did something to draw an AoO, and your opponent would normally draw an AoO for that.

 

[Tellerve]

IMC you can't get an AoO if you did something to draw an AoO, and your opponent would normally draw an AoO for that.

So, in your campaign I wouldn't have provoked the AoO for the disarm attempt?

Tellerve

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

So, in your campaign I wouldn't have provoked the AoO for the disarm attempt?

Tellerve

I think I may have missed a word from my example. So, it goes like this:

Lieutenant Rimes and a red shirt are engaged in combat. The red shirt has an assault rifle, while Rimes is unarmed. Both have Combat Martial Arts, though, and so threatens an area. They are standing right next to each other.

The red shirt attempts to shoot Rimes with a gun. Rimes responds by attempting a disarm, but note that Rimes does not have Improved Disarm. The red shirt attempts to trip him as an AoO, but the chain ends there, even if Rimes has Combat Reflexes. Otherwise two opponents with Combat Reflexes will go at it ad infinitum.

 

[WaterRabbit]

I think I may have missed a word from my example. So, it goes like this:

Lieutenant Rimes and a red shirt are engaged in combat. The red shirt has an assault rifle, while Rimes is unarmed. Both have Combat Martial Arts, though, and so threatens an area. They are standing right next to each other.

The red shirt attempts to shoot Rimes with a gun. Rimes responds by attempting a disarm, but note that Rimes does not have Improved Disarm. The red shirt attempts to trip him as an AoO, but the chain ends there, even if Rimes has Combat Reflexes. Otherwise two opponents with Combat Reflexes will go at it ad infinitum.

While I see where you are comming from on this. A simpler way to handle AoO chains, without resorting to creating house rules, is to not create them with GM controlled characters. In the example you gave above, you could have the red shirt just hit Rimes with the rifle butt, thus ending any potential AoO chain.

My point is that how deep a CR depends upon the actions you take with GM characters. AoO are also at character option, so you could choose not to take an AoO in order to reserve it for use against another character or against the same character who creates another opportunity.