Improved Grab and AOO

[frankthedm]

I don't agree that the green gets the AoO in the first place.

Same here, but it was a popular option so it was counted for in the diagram.

However, when the green creature attacks the grappled victim, he cannot automatically pull him out of the grapple.

I'd agree with that, though I doubt the rules do . Improved grab does not have any provisos other than it is a free action to use after a hit. Since attacking into a grapple is legal, the nature of improved grab would trump the typical grapple rules.

What I'd Say: When green activates improved grab, all 3 roll a grapple check
Whoever rolls higher chooses which monster gets the victim.
If the victim rolls the worst, he suffers the unarmed strike damage of the losing grabber from being used in a tug of war.

 

[frankthedm]

Right, like charge. Charging doesn't provoke.

I'd refer to table 8-2: Actions in Combat sub note one (1) which states, with regard to attacks of opportunity: "Regardless of the action, if you move out of a threatened square, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity."

Move yes. D&D terms are often specific. Being knocked around on the battlefield could possibly fall outside of 'movement as the D&D geme term.

Plus I would hope awesome blow would have had AoO reminder text if the victim drew those from being knocked around.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The "this act" refers to the previous sentence, does it not?

Not necessarily... perhaps they anticipated someone might compare "pull the opponent into his space" with "pick up a fallen object", and conclude that the act of drawing someone close is equivalent to picking them up, and should similarly provoke an AoO. The line precludes that.

-Hyp.

 

[Dracorat]

This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

If it wanted to protect only one party, I would have to say that from experience that would read:

This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity from the attacker.

Additionally, I am going to point out that the rules state that you have to take a movement action which you are not doing if you are the victim of a grapple:

Provoking an Attack of Opportunity

Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing an action within a threatened square.
Moving

Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes an attack of opportunity from the threatening opponent. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot step and the withdraw action.
Performing a Distracting Act

Some actions, when performed in a threatened square, provoke attacks of opportunity as you divert your attention from the battle. Actions in Combat notes many of the actions that provoke attacks of opportunity.

Remember that even actions that normally provoke attacks of opportunity may have exceptions to this rule.

As a final point, I hope that those people taking AoOs (for those people are still not convinced) are at least rolling 50/50 to see which occupant is struck since the limb of the attacker and the person of the attacked are locked in a grapple before that AoO is provoked. (As per normal grapple rules)

 

[Hypersmurf]

If it wanted to protect only one party, I would have to say that from experience that would read:

This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity from the attacker.

But it's the attacker performing the act. Why would he provoke an AoO from himself?

As a final point, I hope that those people taking AoOs (for those people are still not convinced) are at least rolling 50/50 to see which occupant is struck since the limb of the attacker and the person of the attacked are locked in a grapple before that AoO is provoked. (As per normal grapple rules)

You know that that only applies to ranged attacks, not to melee attacks, right? And AoOs are, by definition, melee attacks.

(Plus, it's not defined as 50/50; it's defined as 'determine randomly'. Especially if there's a size difference, a DM might weight the random determination differently.)

-Hyp.

 

[Dracorat]

But it's the attacker performing the act. Why would he provoke an AoO from himself?

He wouldn't but it could still be useful to point out that he doesn't provoke AoOs from other people especially since he is moving something across the playing field.

You know that that only applies to ranged attacks, not to melee attacks, right? And AoOs are, by definition, melee attacks.

No I wasn't. I was under the impression it applied always, however, in reviewing the SRD it appears from what little I can see there you are correct. I will review with PHB in hand later to be sure, but at the moment will accept this as truth.

(Plus, it's not defined as 50/50; it's defined as 'determine randomly'. Especially if there's a size difference, a DM might weight the random determination differently.)

Of this, we do not agree.

 

[Neverwill]

Skip Williams agrees with you, Frank.

When a creature gets a hold after an improved grab attack, it pulls the opponent into its space (rather than entering the foe's space). According to page 310 in the Monster Manual, the grabbed creature's involuntary movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A creature with the improved grab special attack and reach drags a grabbed foe a considerable distance.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Not necessarily...perhaps they anticipated someone might compare "pull the opponent into his space" with "pick up a fallen object", and conclude that the act of drawing someone close is equivalent to picking them up, and should similarly provoke an AoO. The line precludes that.

Sure it does. But the "act" also encompasses the movement of the victim, right? If it doesn't, then what exactly is the creature with improved grab doing? If it does, then the "act", including the victim's movement, doesn't incur an AoO.

 

[Hypersmurf]

He wouldn't but it could still be useful to point out that he doesn't provoke AoOs from other people especially since he is moving something across the playing field.

But other people aren't "the attacker", so your proposed wording doesn't cover what you want to point out...

I will review with PHB in hand later to be sure, but at the moment will accept this as truth.

PHB p151, Table 3-6, if that helps. The only entry bearing footnote 3 is Ranged Attack vs Grappling Defender.

Of this, we do not agree.

You don't agree that it says "roll randomly" and does not say "50/50"?

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But the "act" also encompasses the movement of the victim, right?

The victim isn't the one acting.

If I cast a Quickened Telekinesis and use it to Bull Rush someone, their movement might provoke an AoO, even though the act of casting a Quickened spell does not provoke an AoO.

The act of dragging an opponent into my square does not provoke an AoO, but that opponent's movement might.

-Hyp.