Improved Trip master?

[Zaruthustran]

Please lay off Frank; the infinite loop is an interesting exploit. Disagree if you want but please don't insult him.

Me, I don't think the infinite loop makes sense even within the rules--"trip" in this context means "to make fall down." If you're already down there's nowhere to fall.

The counter-argument to that is that you can "trip" magically flying creatures. In-game, it means they're spun around/disoriented.

I'm leaning toward the dwarf cleric with the Strength domain. BAB doesn't matter much with Trip (it's a touch attak, followed by a str check) and the followup attack is at +4, so what's the appeal of Fighter? Besides being able to do it at first level if non-human, that is.

I'd peg the best 6th level tripper as 6th level Cleric of Strength.

28 point buy (with one stat bump from 4th level)
Str 16 Dex 8 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 15 Cha 6

Feats:
1. Combat Expertise
3. Improved Trip
6. EWP: Spiked Chain

Trip mod:
+3 Str
+4 Enlarge Person (1st level domain spell)
+4 Improved Trip
+3 Feat of Strength (domain ability)
= +14 to trips, +18 to resist trip.

Compare to 6th level druid:
halfling druid
Str 6 Dex 10 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 16 Cha 8
(low physical stats since will wild shape)
Shape of cheetah:
Str 16, full attack bite +6 2 claws +1 each. A hit with any attack deals normal damage and initiates a free trip attempt.
+3 Str
+2 Bull's Strength
+4 Improved Trip
= +9 to trips, +13 to resist trip.

The three trip attempts per the dwarf's one may give the edge to the cheetah. Although, the cheetah wouldn't have a chance against a large creature while the dwarf can go toe-to-toe.

I agree that at high levels the druid has the advantage, but at low levels the advantage is to the dwarf cleric.

Funky question: what if the druid was a dwarf druid? If wildshaped it would lose the stonecunning, darkvision, and +4 trip resitance, right? But does anyone ever remember this stuff? Would a human wildshaped into a bear lose his human bonus skill points? Would an elf lose his enchantment resistance? Or a halfling his +1 save modifiers and bonus to thrown weapons?

-z

 

[reapersaurus]

Because the same reasoning would allow people to protect themselves from Cause Blindness by closing their eyes.

ahhh, but there are no rules for closing your eyes in D&D.

Therefore, since it doesn't say in the rulebooks that closing your eyes protects you from Cause Blindness, than you obviously can't do it.

If you live by the rules only, you die by the rules, Frank.
Do you see why most people don't take the extreme rules lawyerish approach to D&D?

BTW: since there is no rule that says you can get infinite attacks in D&D, than your Improved Trip/Wolf Bite combo is similarly void, just on these preposterous rules-lawyerish "it's not in the book" grounds.

 

[reapersaurus]

I thought of another stricly-rules lawyerish reason why the infinite Trip combo could not work:

Since combat rounds are 6 seconds long, it precludes the infinite loop.
Therefore, it must not be infinite.
Since any number other than infinity is not following the Trip combo 'rules', than we are at an impasse - there must be some ruling made to rectify this obvious impossibility.

Since some number less than infinity must be chosen, the best candidate is to have only one attack obtained thru this combo.

Boy, rules lawyering sure is weird thinking to me.

 

[Cedric]

If I have combat reflexes and I trip someone, I get AoO's when they stand up...can I take all of my AoO's against that one target?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

ahhh, but there are no rules for closing your eyes in D&D.

I am not sure about the exact wording, but I believe you can close your eyes against gaze attacks.

If I have combat reflexes and I trip someone, I get AoO's when they stand up...can I take all of my AoO's against that one target?

In 3.0, you could only make one AoO per target, in 3.5 you can take multiple ones, but not for the same reason. If he stands up, you can take an AoO, and if he than casts a spell (without casting on the defense), you could take another one. (Clever 3.0 magicians with bad concentration checks provoked AoOs by doing something completely different than casting, and than casted. This is still possible in 3.5, though the most useful action in that case might be taking a move action to get away )

Mustrum Rudcully

 

[Darklone]

Yeah, MR is right about closing your eyes or averting your gaze.

 

[mmu1]

I'm leaning toward the dwarf cleric with the Strength domain. BAB doesn't matter much with Trip (it's a touch attak, followed by a str check) and the followup attack is at +4, so what's the appeal of Fighter? Besides being able to do it at first level if non-human, that is.

Well, buffs don't last very long anymore, and if you really want to make the best of Trip you obviously need to have at least 13 Int, and a decent Dex - a Cleric who wants to specialize in trip isn't going to be able to do it at will, he'll require at least a couple of rounds of prep-time, and is spreading his ability points awfully thin. I think it's better to just make a fighter who'll have higher physical stats permanently - assuming you actually want to make a character that's going to be used in play, and we're not just trying to make the best one-trick pony.